…to suggest that it’s time the Royal family stands on its own feet and stops taking money from the public purse?

[HappyGalentines]

The Royal family owns and has access to lots of money, land and property. So is it right that they should to take any more money away from us?

There is no evidence of that at all. For all we know if the French still had a RF their tourism and revenue would be even higher.

Agree and that is another Republic argument

What this bunch of German inbreds don't seem to realise is that they are where they are due to us giving them permission to be there. We don't have to have them. All of their functions could be carried out by other people or other mechanisms. The only reason to keep them is if it works for us to do so.

Until now, the general consensus seems to be that it does work.

But, things can change. By the time we've gone a bit further into the Epstein information, will that still be the general consensus? I'm not sure.

If we decide to defund them or ditch them, we can. Realistically, they'd have no comeback. I think it's time to start these conversations in earnest, time to start thinking about how we want these state offices performed.

One trivial thing that really pisses me off is the cost of changing notes and coins to the King's image/head. It's the little things. And that dirge of a depressing sycophantic anthem needs to go too.

Off to take my calming meds now if anyone is interested.

As if!

Really not. What a weak come back

Agree. It costs millions if not billions to change all of this. Why can't we have notable British on the coins, and notes.

It would be good if our elected officials could push the bare minimum such as completely publicly defunding the royals without fear of them hounded out of their jobs.

The 'institution' is more like the mob.

Why evidence do you have though? I’d live it if the French still had a RF. when we went to Sweden recently we detoured to the castle as the RF were in residence

I appreciate you don’t like the RF but lots do!

A quick Google tells me they bring in 1.8 billion so the % is hardly going to change.

And I agree about the state of the hospitals etc, but to use a phrase used earlier in this thread (or another). The amount they bring in is "pissing in the wind". I want to live in a society where things are done fairly. Where a family worth billions is not propped up by the tax payers. If you're so concerned about "loss of income", why don't you actually campaign for the Royal family to pay proper tax. The Duchies combined are worth £1.8 billion yet are exempt from corporation and capital gains tax. They are exempt from inheritance tax. Not even that they charge the NHS and schools the use of their land.

They are literally depriving the Treasury of money that could be spent on vital services.

There was also one deal where the Duchy of Lancaster will make £11.45 million over 15 years for use of a warehouse to store ambulances.

I'll never buy this argument from monarchists about how vital the royal family is in bringing in money when their own tax arrangements and businesses are as they are.

https://taxjustice.uk/blog/the-royal-family-must-be-made-to-pay-more-tax/

There is no proof
It’s impossible to prove a negative which is why it’s ridiculous that Republic use such an argument.

It's also ridiculous that Monarchists use it as an argument too, given they've no evidence that tourism would decline if the Royal Family was abolished as people are just visiting the buildings.

It works both ways.

It's not just about tourism although that does need to be part of the discussion. Hopefully a discussion that is not generated by AI! It would be good to have clear and open parliamentary discussions about tourism, finance in general, a proper stocktake. Then with that all added up look to constitutional considerations.

We do need to do something though, clearly we can't continue as we were before the revelations.

So if the issue has Nothing to do with cost as it’s been proved they bring money into the economy
Lets not use that as an argument to get rid of them

I haven’t commented on loss of income I posted that it’s not the case. That comment refers to another poster

The actual issue seems to be people living in big houses they inherited and hence…envy
I really don’t have an issue with what other people have.

In terms of paying more tax. I’m aware the issue of certain taxed eg cgtax and IHT was debunked by Govn in the past as to impose these would mean a loss of the RF over time and hence a loss in revenue.

Im not a Monarchist personally. Being an Irish Catholic easily explains that.
I am a realist and don’t believe in shooting my self in the foot because I’m jealous of others.
I didn’t agree in the tax on education, another envy policy and
I didn’t vote Brexit either, another stupid idea costing the country.

All in all
If it continuously makes money why get rid of it
If it continuously losses money then it’s worth a rethink

Analysts don’t use this as an argument for the Monarchy. Analysts use current figures to give current worth.

What individual monarchists say is entirely up to them but if not based on facts worthless
Much the same as Republic trying to prove a negative 😆

ABC report upthread is an interesting stock take
right down to some nitty gritty stuff about how what Kate wears to an event helps sales etc

It has nothing to do with jealousy or big inherited houses. And their big houses were bought using tax payer money. I can't see any argument why a family worth billions should be having their private homes renovated (amner Hall, Kensington Palace apartments) at a cost to the tax payer.

It is about how we in a modern democratic society have people in hereditary positions of power. Who have vast amounts of private property and finances that are at a cost to the tax payer. They can't be held to account at the ballot box so they are open to misuse of power, something we have seen very clearly from Andrew. They have hidden expenses such as security and costs to cash strapped Council to fund some of these costs.

They might bring money in, but it's a sum hardly worth shouting about. I want a society where we are citizens not "subjects" and where there is more equality and more in tune with a modern society. We cannot argue we are fair, equal or modern society while we continue to have the Royal family we do.

Well said @Bellaunion

Andrew had less power than Mandelson.

Absolutely agree @Bellaunion - on a human level, I also think it is a cruel institution when it comes to the people it contains. For all their privilege, the whole structure of this and any royal family is diametrically opposed to what most people would recognize as good parenting.

Which properties were bought using tax payer money ?

Amber Hall Reno was funded by private family funds not the tax payer

Property etc and their wealth is not a cost to the tax payer. RTT they make money for the country.

Personal choice re whether people want Royalty . Im not a subject because I live in a democracy

Legally we are all defined as Citizens
hope being a citizen makes you feel better, you want it. You’ve already got it !!!
You’re quite out of date with all that subject stuff

Until 2018 about £215m from the NHS was given to various homeopathic institutes despite no peer reviewed data proving their efficacy. This was solely due to lobbying by Prince Charles because of his belief in alternative medicine. So how do the Royal family have such influence and have the power to spaff taxpayer’s cash on their whims and desires?

The nhs funded homeopathy since 1948 ie since its inception
As an alternative medicine that very little was known about
Not because of Charles
because
1948 was the year of Charles’s birth !

The nhs stopped around 2017/18 after it was found to be ineffective

So they didn’t start funding it because of Charles and stopped irrespective of his support of it.

It all adds up though. I’m sure there are a few million of us who would rather that £1.29 was spent on a more worthwhile cause. That could make a huge difference to people more deserving of the money.

We should have an opt in system for funding - a separate tax code for all of you who want to pay towards the monarchy. I’ll opt out thanks 😀

And the “politics of envy” argument is so tired - no envy, I just want to live in a grown up democracy where people aren’t given enormous power, wealth and influence due to an accident of birth. It really is that simple.

What a great idea. Everyone is happy then. I'd opt out too ☺️