To think that stimming (especially destructive or very intense) is potentially not helpful or even harmful in the long run?

[ThatWaryGreenBiscuit]

I’ve seen a lot of advice that stimming behaviour in individuals with autism or adhd is helpful and regulating, however instinctively this feels wrong to me.

The brain is plastic and can be trained to expect certain things and I feel like that failing to redirect ourselves or our children to more healthy ways of experiencing overwhelm is only making stimming worse. And possibly the overwhelm worse in the long term.

this is backed up by several Reddit threads, where people said allowing themselves to stim, made the stimming worse, but the mainstream opinion is to let the stimming happen.

Instead of teaching life skills and how to get through day in an off ten overstimulating world, is it healthier to rely on potentially problematic behaviour as a way of getting by.

I know I’m probably kicking a hornets nest here, but this is not to suggest that ALL stimming is bad or anything like that. We don’t know everything about the brain or our behaviour, so I think it’s good to discuss things so we can work towards helping everyone rub along together. I hope this makes sense.

Op you sound ignorant. Is it possible that many of the Reddit threads have been posted by Americans who had intensive ABA treatment to make them appear more neurotypical. For many kids that has destroyed their mental health. And you need to research autistic burnout often caused by masking.

I agree - Tony Attwood has spoken extensively about this. ABA is marketed as a cure in the USA because therapists can make money from it. Most autism specialists in the UK recognise the harm it causes.

I was only using the term “I’m talking generally” as I was not talking about the persons grandchildren specifically.

do we have to be an expert on something to have an opinion. My opinion is from observing people and children with autism and adhd.

I am not giving out advice, I’m just asking for a discussion which apparently people are unable to have without being rude and completely condescending and making judgments.

👍👍

saying “hmm maybe X advice that is given maybe it could be harmful in these ways” is apparently a completely unreasonable thing to say 🙃

Well you can have an opinion and other people can point out that it’s ill informed and wrong. A discussion isn’t where everyone agrees with you or gives every opinion equal consideration.

Even if it was harmful, it isn't as harmful as the results of what would happen without been able to stim and regulate oneself.
Trying to train someone out of stimming is veering into ABA territory, which is most definitely harmful.

My son is non verbal and a flapper and a bouncer. Mine is skin picking, so it is quite self destructive as it can cause pain and bleeding. But I've been doing it for at least 25 years, so I don't think it will be easy for me to be "trained" out of it.

It's not so much unreasonable as irrelevant. I know you mean well, but you don't have expertise in this area so why should your thoughts on this trump an expert's opinion?

You sound massively ignorant.
I stim, it helps it doesn’t hurt anyone so why does it matter?
Why must we fit in a square that society expects? Posts like this are harmful, you evidently have no experience in the matter so shut up.

Spinning is the particular behaviour that seems to escalate from what I’ve seen in the children close to me. I’ve not seen people say this before so that’s interesting!

My opinion is from working with autistic children and adults for the past 28 years and having postgraduate qualifications in autism and ADHD best practice. I don’t frame myself as an expert. I’m still learning, and people are unique individuals. It doesn’t bother me if people stim. I’m not sure why it bothers you enough to start a thread on the topic.

Quoting this to highlight it

autistic stims are NOT the same as repetitive OCD behaviours

My step son is Autistic aged 30 and has a first class degree from a top university. I’m sure if he could stop stimming he would, he is embarrassed by it but he can’t control it. He might be able to mask for so long but realistic then he has to. He tics, stimms and jerks - he isn’t in control. Out in public he tries hard not to but he will rock, head slap etc after a while.

Your post shows total ignorance of ND. I am autistic but I hide my stress relievers and you would not know when you are talking to me that I’m counting right angles etc but I will be able to repeat back to you word for word word what you have said even up to 24-48 hours later and I mean word for word.

If you’d read my post you’d see where I specifically said that obviously not all stimming is negative. If it’s potentially hurting the children I love them I will speak about it. How is it harmful to speak about whether stimming May be harming mental health. What is harmful is any discourse that doesn’t fit exactly what the current popular opinion on autism or adhd, even if it’s not actually helping the children that are struggling.

may consider not being so rude to someone you know nothing about

Have you considered that current opinion might be popular because it is evidence-based and therefore more valid than a thought or feeling?

I'm not really sure your point. A lot of occupational therapy with autistic people is about replacing unhelpful or not socially acceptable stims with ones a person can include as part of regular life.

Eg: my son would regularly bang the table bangbangbangbang. His OT in school worked with him to change it to tapping his leg (less disruptive), then to tapping a little fidget thing he can carry round with him. They've done this with a lot of different stims. Totally normal.

Stimming = ok
Socially unacceptable stims = lots of therapy available to swap them for more social ones.

Of course.

Yep the brain's plastic to a certain extent.

But the literal reason we have a diagnosis of autism that exists is a recognition that some brains can't be trained in the same way. That's why it's a LEARNING disability.

Because if it were possible, we could train people not to be autistic. And we can't.

Wow, you have cured autism!

Better let the professionals know.

So you think @Muffinmam is lying and did not in fact cure her severely autistic child through the medium of firm boundaries? 🤔

Im not always the best at portraying my meaning, but of course I would never think it wise or even a good thing to eliminate all stimming behaviour.

I’m simply wondering if SOME stimming behaviour is not good for a person’s mental health due to it being very intense repetitive behaviour (eg pacing, rocking, spinning…) that may create a pathway to MORE intense activity and less regulation and more overstimulation in a child especially (I have seen this happen which is what got me researching and seeing the advice to let them carry on)

im in no way saying all stimming behaviour does this and obviously it will depend on the person

I am really curious about your story. I tend to think people don't go online to just post made up stuff (because... why) but this honestly does sound very very made up, not least that the language you use implies a very limited experience of the diagnostic process or language we typically use about autism. But maybe you're from a place where that's the process and the language. If it were the case and you are being honest I'd be really interested in your experience teaching a non-verbal child to be verbal and getting them to change all of their behaviors. I'd also be really interested in your child's perspective.

And your definition of 'severe' autism as the kids I know who are 'severely' autistic (even if we don't use that term in the UK) are still in nappies in their 20s and absolutely cannot be taught to talk or not flap or anything else.

Or maybe you're a Russian robot, I gather a lot are on here.

So dyslexic people can’t learn to spell? They’ll always be dyslexic but we can help them learn and there is no harm in discussing different ideas on how to do that

I agree with @Muffinmam

Well there isn't much to argue about on that. The therapeutic community is already in agreement with you. Which is why there are millions of therapies aimed at replacing harmful or unhelpful stims with helpful ones. It's literally a whole branch of occupational therapy. It's been my son's focus in OT for years - successfully I'd add.

Obviously depends on the stim. Some headbang or headbutt things which yes, I’d say is destructive and dangerous. No issue with hand flapping or fiddling with hands and such.

that we can cure autism?

I do feel this thread has a few bots on today.