To think that stimming (especially destructive or very intense) is potentially not helpful or even harmful in the long run?

[ThatWaryGreenBiscuit]

I’ve seen a lot of advice that stimming behaviour in individuals with autism or adhd is helpful and regulating, however instinctively this feels wrong to me.

The brain is plastic and can be trained to expect certain things and I feel like that failing to redirect ourselves or our children to more healthy ways of experiencing overwhelm is only making stimming worse. And possibly the overwhelm worse in the long term.

this is backed up by several Reddit threads, where people said allowing themselves to stim, made the stimming worse, but the mainstream opinion is to let the stimming happen.

Instead of teaching life skills and how to get through day in an off ten overstimulating world, is it healthier to rely on potentially problematic behaviour as a way of getting by.

I know I’m probably kicking a hornets nest here, but this is not to suggest that ALL stimming is bad or anything like that. We don’t know everything about the brain or our behaviour, so I think it’s good to discuss things so we can work towards helping everyone rub along together. I hope this makes sense.

Are you autistic?

On Reddit there are subs where any outward sign of autism (ie stimming) is frowned upon, groups where it’s seen as a problem to be fixed. Is this where you’ve seen this? It might be written about but it’s bollocks.

You haven't given any examples of what you mean.

Backed up by Reddit threads? Thanks for the laugh op, I really needed it today.

Oh dear. You over-egged the pudding with "backed up by Reddit".

Don't feed it, people.

Well since you brought up the subject of animals, I would say that human stimming is the same as an animal in a zoo indulging in repetitive behaviours due to mental health struggles caused by an unsuitable environment. Humans are all living in unsuitable environments and the more unsuitable, the more anxious we become and the more we stim. So if you think about it like this, what you're suggesting is quite cruel is it not? Although I suppose things like crochet or playing the piano are stim-like behaviours and more productive.

Perhaps as well as making our bodies stop stimming, we can also make them stop aging or growing tumours…

@ThatWaryGreenBiscuit

You seem to be saying that you are against destructive behaviour and self harm, which I feel we would all agree upon but you go on to say that it’s the repetition that isn’t good, and give the example of a dog chasing its tail.

I know that we don’t fully understand the brain. I think that only the smallest percentage of people in this world consistently do everything in their power to maximise their mind and body. The rest of us often choose to not stop doing something, because it simply makes us feel better. That is the most normal approach.

So when it comes to people with ASD, why should we expect them to fight against something that is helpful to them in favour of a possible undefined benefit in the long term. No one else does this to such an extreme.
Would it be better if I did more exercise? Probably yes, but because I’m a human and not a robot, I don’t feel the need to be programmed into the best possible model of myself. I don’t need an upgrade!

If stimming helps soothe someone whose nervous system is heightened why is that a problem? I have two autistic grandchildren. One stims by jumping up and down and arm flapping and the other doesn’t but masks very effectively. She tends to explode or have a meltdown so they both cope with a disregulated nervous system in different ways. So long as they don’t inflict harm on themselves or others why worry?

@MrFluffyDogIsMyBestFriend "human stimming is the same as an animal in a zoo indulging in repetitive behaviours due to mental health struggles caused by an unsuitable environment." - that's not what I would say that stimming is if you are talking about autism? Maybe if it's stimming caused by a mental health issue, or being in prolonged solitary confinement, perhaps. I think it's incorrect to suggest that children or adults with autism are in the kind of prolonged distress that animals in unsuitable confinement are in.

As long as the stimming isn’t harmful or impacting learning then it’s all good. There’s lots of academic research on this and it’s really insightful 🙂

I agree with this take completely, but no one is arguing that pacing behaviour in zoos is good for the animals surely? Yes sometimes repetitive behaviour is not harmful or even productive, agree.

Could we perhaps stop comparing autistic children to distressed animals in unsuitable confinement?

Sorry I don’t know how to reply to individual comments. This was in reply to the zoo animal comment

I agree . Adult asd son 42 has stopped himself tapping ect because he felt it drew attention which he didn't want .

Well this is a cracker isn’t it?

My DGd did that we got a soft bracelet that solved the problem it was made from plaited cloth.

But that’s totally separate and irrelevant to your OP.

Can you explain why you think, eg, fidget toys (a form of stimming) are bad?

Well my instinct is to stim, not sure why your instinct trumps mine.

Life skills have fuck all to do with it.

I'm not sure I understand your issue with stimming, OP. Just to clarify, are you saying that hand flapping or knee jigging is harmful in the long-term? If so, what is the exact harm?

I completely agree with you.

I have a child with the most severe form of autism, GDD and suspected ADHD (GP wanted a sign off from a teacher to confirm his diagnosis).

When my child was a toddler he would suddenly rock so violently that I would get injured. I put a stop to that along with the flappy hands, vocal stimming and walking on tippy toes.

I also found that when he was encouraged to do things like spinning (by his speech therapist) he would go absolutely feral. I told her not to do that because he would get himself into a situation where he wouldn’t stop. She argued that autistic kids like it. So I sat back and let her deal with him. It didn’t calm his nervous system - it put him into a state where his behaviour continued to escalate until the point he would physically injure himself.

At home he would need more and more to satisfy his sensory needs and would run full force into furniture.

My concern was all of his behaviours were preventing him from making friendships as well as preventing him from interacting with the world. His Paediatrician told me that we need to get him out of his world before the age of 9-10. So that’s what I focused on.

I was so successful in stopping his behaviours that new Paediatricians told me they could not tell he was autistic.

He talks (previously he was non verbal), he’s made friendships and he plays with others.

I absolutely refused to lean in to his behaviours. I told him if he felt it necessary to carry on then he should go up to his room and do in private and that he shouldn’t annoy me.

I support him. I’ve given up my amazing career for him. I refused to be home all day with a kid that was non-verbal, who groaned, moaned, yeeped, rocked, self harmed (he used to hit himself in the head), who flapped his arms like a bird and walked around on his toes.

Some stimming, when it's violent or highly disruptive, can be redirected to something less obvious or inappropriate. That's a good thing to do.

Other stimming can be really helpful in keeping an autistic person from a meltdown.

Some points as I don’t know how to reply:

If the activity is genuinely non helpful then of course I don’t have a problem with it, why would I?

I am questioning whether certain stimming behaviour that is often seen as harmless or beneficial to the person is actually harmful. For example intensely repetitive behaviour could actually be feeding into a loop of behaviour that will escalate into more harmful behaviour or ocd type behaviour who’s definitely not healthy to a person. Especially as many individuals who stim may also have ocd struggles or tendencies.

I only mentioned Reddit as it’s difficult to find open discussions on this without it spiralling into defensiveness. a this thread was discussing what I was thinking.

No I would never tell a child off for stimming or make them out to be a bad person.

I don’t see why it’s not possible to discuss the best methods for helping autistic or adhd people when you have them in your life. Not every piece of professional advice is solid so just because the research has a conclusion right now doesn’t mean it’s right or right for everyone.

@Muffinmam

GPs don’t diagnose ADHD though?

Glad you got it sorted. We've tried various bracelets and chew toys, but nothing compares to the real thing apparently