To think that stimming (especially destructive or very intense) is potentially not helpful or even harmful in the long run?

[ThatWaryGreenBiscuit]

I’ve seen a lot of advice that stimming behaviour in individuals with autism or adhd is helpful and regulating, however instinctively this feels wrong to me.

The brain is plastic and can be trained to expect certain things and I feel like that failing to redirect ourselves or our children to more healthy ways of experiencing overwhelm is only making stimming worse. And possibly the overwhelm worse in the long term.

this is backed up by several Reddit threads, where people said allowing themselves to stim, made the stimming worse, but the mainstream opinion is to let the stimming happen.

Instead of teaching life skills and how to get through day in an off ten overstimulating world, is it healthier to rely on potentially problematic behaviour as a way of getting by.

I know I’m probably kicking a hornets nest here, but this is not to suggest that ALL stimming is bad or anything like that. We don’t know everything about the brain or our behaviour, so I think it’s good to discuss things so we can work towards helping everyone rub along together. I hope this makes sense.

"I just feel like encouraging children to behave in intensive repetitive behaviours is not going to be good for their brain."

Firstly, this is just your feeling, it's not based on anything at all that's objective. Secondly, in general parents don't encourage stimming, and ignoring it is not to encourage it. Thirdly, the stimming behaviour originates from the child, it isn't being imposed on their brain, it is part of their make up. People have clearly described how being forced or required to mask their stimming causes them issues, which is the total opposite of your "feeling" about this.

I think you have some specific issues with how the children or adults that you know with autism are being parented or cared for, and you personally find stimming to be something that upsets you. That's my feeling about this.

That was literally my first thought when I read this post! “Oh people on a REDDIT thread said this? It must be true!

FWIW my son’s stimming has changed over the years as he’s grown physically and emotionally.

I’m very sure you don’t understand but I think you have good intentions. It’s very difficult to explain over a Mumsnet post. Have you heard of Temple Grandin? She is a professor of science in America, and a very famous autism advocate as she was one of the first individuals to publicly share her experience of autism. There is a film about her life which covers these topics in detail. I think you would find it really interesting.
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1278469/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk

Ok, but have you considered that chronic anxiety and threat-load increase OCD risk? Or that masking and suppression increase anxiety? And that suppression is more plausibly a risk factor than stimming?

No, they don't, nor do teachers 'sign it off'. I've not heard professionals use the term 'most severe form of autism' either, what is that @Muffinmam ? Have you reversed it now that your child is verbal and doesn't engage in repetitive behaviour? Communication and repetitive behaviour is part of the diagnostic criteria. Have you cured him autism or reduced him from being the 'most severe form'. If so, have you contacted medical professionals about this? I'm sure there will be many interested in your method used to cure autism.

You don’t stop OCD by telling children to stop pacing. Quite the opposite, if you tell a child with ocd who paces to stop pacing- you make it worse!

Did I say you just tell them to stop and problem solved? No I didn’t. But what you certainly don’t do I tell them and their parents that actually the ocd compulsions are their way of regulating.

The GP might have wanted information from a teacher to support a referral for assessment, but they didn’t need this to “confirm a diagnosis” - because GPs don’t diagnose ADHD. Why wouldn’t the teacher provide the requested information?

If you found telling him to stim in private so he didn’t “annoy” you so effective that his stims disappeared, he became verbal, and he started playing with others and making friends, with your terribly caring interventions making such a difference that a paediatrician genuinely said they “could not tell he was autistic”…you’ve either found a miracle ‘cure’ (not a thing) and should get in touch with some medical journals, caused intense masking which is likely to cause him a ton of issues as he gets older, or he wasn’t autistic at all in the first place.

Either way, what you’ve described isn’t “the most severe form of autism” is it? (Not that he could have that anyway, as it isn’t a thing).

Who says? You’re a psych now are you?🤣 Pacing is soothing for my son and always will be. His OCD which is being treated with therapy and medication is completely separate and different to his stimming .

Thankyou for that. One of the GS is a spinner among other things so I will try calming that or redirecting because I have been wondering as it does seem to make him go some after! I have been letting him spin a bit in the kitchen Also he jumps all over the settee and then spins off rather wildly! No amount of telling him stops him day in day out and it can be dangerous so I'm thinking a distraction technique is needed there similarly?

Don't mean to be hijacking the thread.

I’m a psychologist and specialise in neurodiversity. In 15 years I haven’t come across one person where this was harmful. The harm I have witnessed was from people trying to prevent individuals from engaging with their stim behaviours or try to’teach’ someone to be what others perceive as ‘normal’. So my experience has been the opposite - that stopping it causes harm.

Generally you do see the stimming increase as someone becomes deregulated and it may appear to be becoming aggressive or heavy handed. That is different to the stimming itself being the problem, it’s an indication that someone is trying to self-settle in a situation that isn’t working for them, and id be looking to reflect upon what about the environment (maybe including the people there) would lead to that increased distress and work to change that, rather than try to take someone’s regulatory strategy away.

I’ve never observed a link between stimming and OCD. Rigidity and need for routine and OcD like traits yes, but that links differently to OCD where someone has to engage with compulsions to prevent something bad from happening.

I have ocd 👍

Autistic adults have been diagnosed with PTSD after harmful so-called therapies that rewarded them for suppressing stimming, so no, the science is very clear on this. Children who were left-handed used to be trained to write with their right hand because that was supposedly the norm. That was also harmful.

So not a psych or doctor.

That’s because animals are not designed to be in zoos and pacing is their only coping mechanism.

What stimming is acceptable and what isn't OP. Yoo haven't clarified?

So what? That doesn't qualify you to advise people.

There is some degree of overlap between OCD and autism in some people. Autistic stimming helps to regulate the emotional system and are a source of comfort. There is no need to stop autistic people from stimming unless it causes actual harm, which is rare in my experience and can be replaced with something that gives the same feeling of comfort. OCD compulsions are experienced as distressing and can be treated with medication or therapy. It’s that simple.

How does pacing or rocking harm you or anyone else? You might not like it, but it’s not harmful to the person doing it. We are not robots.

more talking generally

It is meaningless to 'talk generally' about an extremely complex and very varied set of neurodiverse conditions and behaviours, which affect and manifest in different people in different ways.

Even if you were an expert, which you are not, you wouldn't be in a position to make informed recommendations about the behaviours of neurodiverse people you've never met and examined.

It's hilariously big-headed of you to assume that you know people and their children better than they, and the qualified professionals who treat them, know them. And not only big-headed but downright dangerous to dish out advice based on your assumptions.

Ah, this changes the flavour of the whole thread.

OP, I have autism and OCD. You’re conflating two very different things. I understand your concern about compulsions and anxiety-driven loops, but autistic stimming is a totally different mechanism and serves a very different purpose.

Yes, OCD compulsions do worsen when reinforced, because they are driven by intrusive thoughts and threat reduction. Allowing them strengthens the belief that the compulsion prevents danger.
Autistic stimming doesn’t work like that. It isn’t driven by fear or intrusive thoughts, it doesn’t reinforce a false belief, and it isn’t about neutralising threat. It’s a bottom-up, nervous-system regulation response that discharges sensory or emotional load in real time.
Suppressing non-harmful stimming doesn’t reduce dysregulation, it internalises it. That’s why long-term masking is associated with burnout, anxiety, self-harm and worse outcomes, not better ones.

OCD and autism can absolutely be co-morbid, but that makes functional assessment more important, not blanket “wariness” of repetitive behaviour. The same outward movement can serve completely different roles depending on the underlying mechanism. Treating them as equivalent causes harm.

In UK-relevant research and broader meta-analyses, about 10–12% of autistic children/adolescents meet criteria for OCD. That’s not “very common” and stimming doesn’t cause OCD.

But the solution there is to create a better environment for them (which goes all the way up to taking them out of it altogether and releasing them) - not force them to stop doing it by putting them in an even smaller space where they can't pace/turn around/whatever.

You're not talking about making an environment nicer for somebody so they don't need to stim as much in a way that offends your sensibilities, you're just wanting them to stop - which is going to be about as effective as my mother screaming at me to stop biting my nails or somebody in the office putting in a formal complaint because I crack my joints (sometimes intentionally to relieve pain and stiffness)/my joints crack on movement, but going absolutely garrity when the suggestion is that I was moved to a small office of my own.

The thing that is bad for the animal in that situation is not the pacing.

The thing that is bad for them is being confined in a small, stressful space with insufficient mental stimulation.

Stopping the animal pacing doesn't help them - quite the opposite, actually. If you stop them from pacing, it just means the only thing that can relieve their stress is no longer available to them and they suffer a lot more as a result.

What does help them is removing them from the inappropriate enclosure and rehoming them in a more suitable environment. Then their pacing generally either disappears entirely over time, or reduces considerably, because they are no longer under stress.

The patterns are difficult to break but they often can be. Look into response interruption and redirection.