Electric cars are NOT the future, are they?

[Isometimeswonder]

I am genuinely torn. I need want a new car but really don't want electric.
But so few smaller petrol cars are made now.
I haven't got a place to charge a car at home.
AIBU I should accept electric is the future.
AINBU I should get petrol. (Please recommend a small city car)

We don't have resident only parking on our street. I know people who live on streets in the area that do have it - but it's only one side of the street and every house is allowed two permits, when every house frontage is only one car's width. So that doesn't really work.

And regarding our driving pattern, it would be great to charge the car to 80% at a domestic overnight rate in preparation for journeys out if the city. But if we couldn't guarantee being able to park outside and charge on a particular date, we'd have to consider which would cost less - paying for a charger and gully and sometimes having to pay for public chargers, or always paying for public chargers.

Neighbours with a different travel pattern would be doing their own calculations, of course.

Yes, exactly. As has been stated up thread, Norway is a sparsely populated country. Therefore it is likely to have low density housing. In other words, completely different to the UK, especially England.

when every house frontage is only one car's width.

should be

when the width of every house's frontage is only one car's length

Missed the editing window.

Exactly.

I've just found out that having a cable trailing across the pavement from your house to your EV is actually illegal as it's a trip hazard and you will be liable for any accidents. The 'solutions' to this always assume that you can park directly in front of your house, which is not the case.

The point is, EVs are fantastic for people with drives or who live in low density neighbourhoods, who can charge their EVs at home. For people in terraced housing where cars are parked bumper to bumper and you're not always able to park directly outside your own house, the EV system doesn't work.

It's got nothing to do with people being stupid or backward-looking.

Your implication is that anyone who is sceptical about the government's push towards EVs is stupid or backward-looking.

I have my own parking space but it’s in the communal car park and nowhere near my flat. On the basis I had to pay £100 for permission to get a cat, I think most of the £500 grant would go straight to the management company to get permission to install a charger! Goodness only knows how much it would be to get the actual charger installed.

One thing that does make me sad about electric cars is the lack of any character. I went out yesterday and saw a Morris Minor, a classic Mini and a huge American muscle car - all absolutely oozing personality and the ability to turn heads. A soulless grey box on wheels just doesn’t give me that same smile factor. Which I appreciate is a purely personal preference.

How interesting that they've illustrated this government scheme to help people to charge at home without a driveway ... with a picture of a person standing next to an EV on a driveway. Says it all, really.

That's your words.

I don't think they are stupid. I think very few people are stupid.

I do think many people over index on how things currently are rather than recognising things are changing all the time, and what seemed impossible yesterday is normal and unremarkable today.

I remember when people laughed at the idea of video over the internet. The idea that connections speeds would ever be fast enough, that companies would put the infrastructure in, that enough people would want fast Internet enough to pay for it, was literally laughable.

And yet, it happened.

Of course it will happen. Nobody is saying the move to EVs will not happen.

The point is that they're great for people with driveways or who live in low density neighbourhoods but for anyone not in that position, the push to EVs will make life more difficult.

But that's the future: great for some people, more difficult for others.

What, that stock images are usually pretty generic? Yep. You should see the ones our council uses!

Hardly really cast iron proof that on street EV charging can never work (unless you also think my council's elderly services are entirely used by smiling healthy 65 year old playing chess with each other 😂)

And yet, I literally am a person who lives in a high density neighbourhood without a personal charger and I am telling you it does work.

It works for me and many others today and it will work better in the future as the infrastructure is built out in response. Just like all those high speed broadband connections got built by, yes, digging up pavements and laying cables.

Meanwhile ICEs work for many today but will work worse in the future as the infrastructure winds down due to lack of need.

@Chersfrozenface It always takes me an hour in a supermarket, don't know why but always an hour. That's a reasonable time for a car to do some charging.

The problem is we've all got used to dashing along the motorway to get to our destination as fast as possible. I can remember as a child getting up at 4 in the morning to go on holiday, stopping in laybys for breakfast and my dad knowing where all the public loos were, Shepton Mallet, Bath can't remember the other places. Journeys were very long.

And to be honest we are never in a motorway service station for less than half an hour by the time we've been to the loo, bought sandwiches and coffee and consumed them. It's not much of a hardship to stay a little longer. The way people travel may also have to change and it being a bit more leisurely.

A study commissioned by the DfT and published last year shows that 85% to 90% of EV and PHEV drivers charge at home.

This tells us that those for whom charging is easy and reasonably priced are buying EVs and PHEVs. Those for whom it isn't, aren't.

OooPourUsACupLove is in that small minority of 5%.

My most recent car was a 2 year old, low mileage, petrol Jazz. A lot cheaper than buying new. If you don’t want electric or hybrid, if I were you I’d look for similar cars.

I don't think I've ever stopped in a motorway service station for more than 10 minutes, they're strictly emergency loo stops only for me.

Longer stops are planned with better food options and nicer surroundings.

I always find it amusing that so many always say 'by the time you've had a coffee your car will be charged' as if it's a given that everyone pays for overpriced coffee in service stations. Costa was something like 4.50 for a small latte in a service station the last time, that soon eats into those fuel savings!

As I already posted pages ago, if that's your preference then use your charging app to find a charger near a nice coffee shop.

With the added bonus that now you don't even have to make that extra 10 minute stop for petrol 👍

With the added bonus that now you don't even have to make that extra 10 minute stop for petrol

We have a range of 590 miles, we're not needing to stop for petrol at all 😊

That's kind of my point, we can arrange stops around eating and nice walks, we don't have to think about fuelling so we don't need to coordinate a fuel stop and an eating/rest stop (I'm coeliac, 90% of the time I've brought my own food as it's that or stave!).

It's not an impossible problem, but it will require more planning.

Doesn't surprise me, I am often an early adopter.

I remember when Tesco first launched online shopping, internet was so slow and expensive thst you got a cd rom with the product images and shopping software, and just connected once at the start to download the stock list and prices, and once at the end to upload your order!

It's people like me, the ones who actually try it and do it and learn what works and create the initial demand for the services and infrastructure that over time give others the confidence to follow.

It is hilarious to me how confident the people who haven't tried are that they know more than the people who have.

Also hilarious that we have one anti-EV camp insisting they only work in high density areas where it's worth installing lots of street chargers and another insisting they only work in low density areas where people all have drives and solar panels!

You aren't driving 590 miles without a break though. And you'll have reasonable flexibility over what point in the journey to charge. So you'll think about roughly when you'll want to stop and look for somewhere nice with a charger nearby, just as today you presumably look for somewhere nice to stop on the way.

And over time, there will be more and more places that fit the bill.

It hasn’t happened over 30% of the people where I live are still on speeds to low to really stream and there is absolutely no plan to upgrade us as it’s not cost effective, we even get to keep our analog phones as VOIP will not work.

So you'll think about roughly when you'll want to stop and look for somewhere nice with a charger nearby, just as today you presumably look for somewhere nice to stop on the way.

Absolutely, but I'm pointing out that it requires more effort/coordination than just stopping alone. You suggested that stopping somewhere nice with a charger would mean I don't have to stop somewhere nice and then have to make a 10 minute fuel stop as well but that's not the comparison.

Currently on say a 300 mile journey, I can choose to break my journey anywhere for a rest/lunch etc. I don't need to consider fuelling requirements at all. In an electric vehicle, I would need to consider where I stop more carefully and I'm more restricted in where I can stop as it needs to be a place with chargers. It's doable for sure, but it is more effort, however minimal you view that effort.

The biggest barrier for me going fully electric at the moment is my once a month journey to the office - 180 miles each way. I leave at 6pm, drive for 3 hours, stay in a hotel, drive to the office, work, drive home. Hotel and office don't currently have charging options so I'd have to make an extra stop somewhere.

Then service stations would need bigger car parks, not just to have bigger spaces for the charging units etc., but also because cars will, on average, be parked there for a longer period of time. Many service station car parks are already pretty busy/full at peak times, so they'll have to expand, buy adjoining land and build bigger car parks. Is that feasible? Who will pay? Not just service stations but other "stop offs" en route such as drive through McDonalds, Burger Kings, Costa Coffees etc - usually already very small car parks, often full, they're not going to want people clogging up their car parks staying longer whilst charging are they?

Yes indeed. Those for whom an EV makes sense, i.e. journey patterns, ease of charging etc., will be the ones who've bought an EV. Charging at home is a massive issue - those who can will, those who can't will mostly stick with a ICE vehicle. Charging at home is pretty cheap and simple, especially for those with a decent sized drive.

The challenge will be to get those who can't charge at home to buy EVs. We've thought about it several times. We can't charge at home, and I couldn't charge at my office. That's the deal breaker for me, as I don't want to have to drive out of my way to one of the very few charging spots near where I live/work and be stuck there for any length of time.

DH and I share long drives, and often just stop long enough for the loo and on a very long drive for petrol, then switch drivers. The passenger eats in the car while the other is driving. We don't "look for somewhere nice to stop on the way."

The Local Chemist: Since petrol was originally sold as a cleaning solvent or a treatment for head lice, you bought it at the apothecary or chemist. It was sold in two-gallon triangular cans (often called "Pratts" or "Shell" cans).

Never trust AI. They were rectangular. We have one in our shed.