Electric cars are NOT the future, are they?

[Isometimeswonder]

I am genuinely torn. I need want a new car but really don't want electric.
But so few smaller petrol cars are made now.
I haven't got a place to charge a car at home.
AIBU I should accept electric is the future.
AINBU I should get petrol. (Please recommend a small city car)

My original Fiesta didn’t even have a radio, but I used to drive it long distances with no trouble, if not relative comfort.

Reminds me of when we got our micra, we didn't get the most basic model, but the next one up so we could get a radio and a rear windscreen wiper. How times have changed!

@adlitem

it won't be a workable solution for many people for a very long time.

This.

Please read above regarding how long secondhand petrol cars need to be available for (it’s at least until 2050) - I think the government know that this transition to the future is going to take a very long time.

There are some 40 million private cars on UK roads, and if one tried to replace them new EVs all at once it would cost north of 2 trillion £, so roughly the entire UK economy in a year.

Which is impossible. So the plan is that new EVs will filter down into the secondhand market and gradually takeover there, until some of the places poorest served by charging etc. can catch up with London and other major cities.

I’m convinced that a lot of the nervousness around EVs is that plenty of people believe that ICE cars themselves are being banned in 2030 and they will be forced to buy an EV, which is just not true - only brand-new ones are currently^ being banned, with another 5 years where new hybrids will also be allowed. ICEVs will be on the roads for decades after that, and classic ones forever.

^ that may not happen, of course, but if China keeps making EVs cheaper and cheaper as they are, then it won’t much matter whether a ban stays in place - the car companies will have to compete

Unless you are literally driving around all day and all night, you must be parking your car somewhere for reasonable chunks of time!

This is exactly what I'm planning to get. I will revisit electric in 3 yrs. Will be interested to see what has changed!

Just for fun, I asked Gemini about the practicalities of early motoring....

You said
When people first starting using motor cars in the UK, where did they buy petrol and how far could the car go between fuel stops?

Gemini said
It’s hard to imagine now, but in the earliest days of motoring (the late 1890s and early 1900s), there wasn't a "petrol station" in sight. Buying fuel was more like a trip to the pharmacy than a pit stop at a BP.

Here is how the pioneers of the road kept their horseless carriages moving.

Where Did They Buy Petrol?
Before the first dedicated filling station opened in the UK (which didn't happen until 1919 in Aldermaston), motorists had to be resourceful.

The Local Chemist: Since petrol was originally sold as a cleaning solvent or a treatment for head lice, you bought it at the apothecary or chemist. It was sold in two-gallon triangular cans (often called "Pratts" or "Shell" cans).

Ironmongers and Hotels: As cars became slightly more common, blacksmiths, ironmongers, and even upscale hotels began stocking these two-gallon tins in their stables or outbuildings.

The "Pour and Pray": There were no pumps. You had to use a funnel with a chamois leather filter (to strain out debris and water) and manually pour the heavy cans into the tank—usually while wearing leather gloves and trying not to splash your tweed suit.

Range and Efficiency
The distance a car could travel between "fuel stops" was often dictated more by the availability of shops than the size of the fuel tank.

Feature
Early Edwardian Reality (Approx. 1900–1905)
Fuel Tank Capacity
Usually 4 to 10 gallons.
Fuel Economy
Surprisingly decent, often 20–30 mpg, because the cars were very light and moved very slowly.
Average Range
Theoretically 80–150 miles, but practically much shorter.

The "Range Anxiety" of 1900
While a car could go 100 miles on a tank, early motorists rarely risked it for a few reasons:

Reliability: You were more likely to suffer a mechanical breakdown or a puncture than to run out of fuel.

Scarcity: If you left a major town, you had no guarantee the next village chemist would have petrol in stock. Motorists often sent crates of fuel ahead by rail to their destination to ensure they could get home.

The "Red Flag" Legacy: Until 1896, the law required a person to walk in front of the car. Even after that was abolished, speeds were generally capped at 20 mph, making a 100-mile trip an exhausting, all-day marathon.

Moving around back then required more logistics than a modern space launch!

Yes, in our street, if we're lucky. I've explained the problem with on-street chargers, or the lack of them, previously.

Genuinely, what do you actually use your car for if it just spends all its time parked in your street? Is it just school runs? That's the only thing I can think of that doesn't involve parking somewhere for enough time to at least charge a car enough for city driving!

Mostly for journeys out of the city. The odd trip to a specific shop, usually to pick up a click and collect order, so we're not there long.

We walk and use public transport a lot in the city. As I say, that's not an unusual pattern for city dwellers.

As someone who can't drive (due to a health condition that means I legally cannot have a license), that's exactly what I have to do if my DH can't drive me there, I'm unsure as to why that would be such a bizarre concept? 😂

My DD has a cheap run a round, terraced housing, zero guarantee of being able to park outside your house, she uses the car to get to work when its peeing down, has the use of pool cars at work but when none available has to use her own car,
No EV chargers near by or at her office, she can barely afford to run this car, has saved £6k in 2 years, no chance of being able to buy even a old Leaf... and that hasn't the range for some of her appointments to very vulnerable people.

Realistically, there isn't the room to have EV chargers nearby, even if Govt had the cash to install them, its a packed inner city, space is at a premium.

I really do think that the push for EV's is being done by people who are clueless as to how little money many people really have and my DD is considered to earn a reasonable wage but rent/council tax and student loan wreck that in reality.

A big barrier to the roll out is how difficult it would be for residents in terraced streets with no allocated parking directly outside their home to charge from their home. You'd need the council to install charging stations at each parking bay or something. Unlikely.

Our road doesn't even have marked bays as such. Parking is on the road for most, those who have had drives build have discovered that living across a steeply sloping hillside means if you don't spend an absolute fortune the drive ends up sliding down into the front of their house; nobody has been mad enough to try it with a house on the uphill side of the road - I could see houses slipping down into the drives!

NDN MUST park so his driver's door is opposite his stairs up to the house (no problems or disabilities there). NDN the other side has 2 adult DC each with their own car as well as hers. There's usually either a white van or a scrap dealers vehicle parked at the end. Same all the way up the road (multiple vehicles per household, work vehicles etc). Vehicle lengths range from a little Fiat 500 up to long wheel base sprinters or similar. How on earth are you going to a) mark bays of a suitable length, b) have bays allocated (which many will ignore) and c) ensure there are enough charging points?

There's many roads closer to the centre of town which are only just wide enough to have cars parked down one side on the narrow pavement to have room for another car to drive past. And we aren't talking inner city here or out in the wilds - Home Counties just outside the M25. It's just that the infrastructure wasn't designed for cars as they didn't exist when most of the town was built (1300's at the heart) or were comparatively rare when the building boom of the 50's and 60's took place round here.

So you never go shopping? Never go to the gym? Enjoy a day out mooching around the town centre? Theatre? Concert? Work? - odd, very odd.
... and then there is the congregation charge that most major cities impose on air polluting petrol & diesel cars.

But I agree, if you are based in a big city like London, you probably don't need a car at all. I never had one until I moved to a small town. Now I have an EV for commuting that gets charged every 8-10 days. It's perfect as a runabout and for medium distance travelling. (I do sports competitions, some are esily 100+ miles round trips. Haven't had any issues with running out of charge yet.)

I 100% agree. That's pretty much how we are in the city as well.

My car currently has about 30% charge. I probably won't need to charge it again until I start an out of town journey.

This seems timely...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/£500-home-ev-chargers-government-extends-grant-2027

Still need to find almost £1k to have an on street charger... if you can park outside.

On the subsidy, i get that with any new tech it is required but it seems to be at the price of destroying our own legacy car industry, both here and in Europe... meanwhile, we give a leg up to Chinese industry, a country deemed to be a security risk to the UK....

From the Autocar article:

"...with the cost of installing a cross-pavement gully included (where necessary and permitted by local councils)."

So a big caveat there about council permission.

And once again, how do you connect your car if someone else is parked by your cross pavement gully?

I’ve only read the article so unsure on any more detail about the proposals, but as someone living in a terrace with only on street parking, I don’t think I’d want to pay to install a charger on public property. I presume that if it’s connected to my house via a gully it’s only me who could use it? But there’s no guarantee that this space would be free for me to use. And if anyone could use it, it is basically making the parking near my house way more tempting than most other parking spaces for everyone else who street parks, which could get annoying.

Feels like if chargers are to be installed on public roads, they should be funded in large batches, not one by one by people who have no right over the parking spaces.

I know this sounds like I’m looking for problems but I’m just thinking it through as a potential option for us and I really don’t want to make the one space near our house the most tempting to park in for all the people who park up near our houses and walk to the station. If all the neighbouring streets had them installed in a batch, like those maps of central London, it would be a totally different matter.

I think you're absolutely correct.

If it's connected to your electricity supply, you're the one paying the bill. The advantage of this, which people with their own off-road parking space can benefit from, is that you get domestic prices, or even cheaper deals, for the electricity, rather than the higher rates paid at public chargers.

Obviously there would have to be a security system to stop others connecting their cars and using electricity you're paying for.

And you've still got the problem of others parking in front of it so you can't use the charger you've paid for, at least partially.

Jesus! I posted it as an example that the problems people are raising can and are being addressed. I'm not suggesting it's now set in stone as The One And Only Way to Get a Gully!

Just like the start of motor cars back in the 1890s, the infrastructure and the new norms will take time. But they will come. The problems will be solved. The tipping point will come where ICE infrastructure is less available than EV.

MN 1890 would have written off motor vehicles because "The whole idea is ridiculous! I mean, what's the point of something that can only go as fast as a man with a flag? I might as well walk!"

Home chargers already have security to stop unauthorised use.

Good.

So just the parking problem, then.

There are already several schemes allowing people with chargers to rent out EV parking spaces with charging. This sort of scheme would work well in urban areas where some houses have driveway charging and some don’t. While the homeowner isn’t parked or charging they can make their charger available for others, with payment via app for the electricity used.

The one that already exists for ICEs? Yes.

Of course, with your driving pattern, as long as you get to a charger once a month or so, you'll be fine.

FWIW, I lived in a street with terrible parking issues. Council brought in cheap resident only parking. Overnight we want from "lucky to find a space within 5 minutes walk" to "usually park right outside the house."

You'd be surprised how fast things change.

This would be interesting for me. I live rurally (15- 20 minutes away from the nearest petrol station) in a mixed housing estate that's been built in several phases, and the last phase- just completed- has a charger in every parking space. My parking space doesn't, and it's the other side of the road from my house. I could ask the HA if they'd put one in, and they might show willing, but I don't know how easy it would be, and like all HAs they're strapped for cash. But if there was a formalised app it would make it easier to rent a neighbour's charger once a week!

My other option would be a granny charger out of the landing window, behind the greenhouse and onto a quiet street with not much footfall and no parking issues, with one of those plastic ducting "bridges".
Or exploring the abovementioned grant and one of those pavement gullies.

I can see that we're inching there....hopefully by the time my old diesel is ready to retire in a few years things will have inched forward a bit more! 🤞