Electric cars are NOT the future, are they?

[Isometimeswonder]

I am genuinely torn. I need want a new car but really don't want electric.
But so few smaller petrol cars are made now.
I haven't got a place to charge a car at home.
AIBU I should accept electric is the future.
AINBU I should get petrol. (Please recommend a small city car)

I don’t get how they’re any better for the environment. Lithium mining is a nightmare, cars have to be scrapped once the battery goes, and then there’s the issue of where all the old batteries will get dumped.

And electricity comes mainly from fossil
fuels in the UK anyway!

Yes they are. All will be electric eventually, probably in the next 30 years. It just makes sense to drive one, it’s so much cheaper and more efficient.

Oh and no they don’t have to be scrapped once the battery goes, you can get a replacement. Takes years for this to happen.

There is a massive disinformation campaign about EVs, possibly funded by those with vested interest in the oil industries. The "anti" arguments cherry pick information. It's true that in the short term EVs use more resources to produce. But over the lifetime of a car, they more than compensate for that.

This in depth article is from an organisation training electricians so not the most extreme green lobbyists. It's very useful in unpicking the myths:

"EVs produce significantly more emissions during manufacturing than petrol cars, primarily because battery production is energy-intensive. That’s the “carbon debt” critics correctly point out. But during operation, EVs charged on the UK grid emit roughly 75-80% less CO2 per mile than equivalent petrol vehicles. That operational advantage pays back the manufacturing debt within 10,000-11,000 miles, roughly 1.2 years of average driving. After that break-even point, the EV is demonstrably cleaner for the remaining 12-15 years of its life."

"Current EVs use primarily virgin materials because there aren’t enough retired batteries to recycle yet. By 2035-2040, as the first wave of mass-market EVs reaches end-of-life, recycled battery materials will increasingly replace virgin mining. Lifecycle studies project that by 2040, 30-40% of battery materials could come from recycled sources, reducing mining impacts proportionally.
This doesn’t eliminate mining, new battery production for fleet growth still requires virgin materials, but it dramatically reduces the mining intensity per vehicle as the circular economy develops."

It's also striking that the people who are most concerned about lithium mining don't seem to be that bothered about other environmental issues, Generally they are supporting the status quo (oil fuelled economy, continue to fly etc) rather than campaigning against environmental damage more widely.

Environmental Impact of Electric Cars in the UK: The Full Truth - Elec Training

@BlueEyedBogWitch - the old batteries will be recycled so they don't need to mine more lithium - while electric cars need things digging up they only need to do so once, almost everything can be reused at the end of life, unlike the fuel for combustion powered cars.

@Isometimeswonder - It's hard when you don't have a place for home charging, it's looking almost certain that in the future all general use cars will be electric (there might be a few old fuel cars like there are still some horse and carts) but tis transition time is tricky. Local authorities are looking at various on street charging options but they aren't there yet. I can't say that you are being either unreasonable or not being unreasonable.

I suspect the current cut-off in the UK to end the sale of ICE cars will move to 2035, like the rest of Europe. We are nowhere ready with the number of public chargers available, and unless you are lucky enough to own your own home and have off-street parking, public chargers are the only way most people can re-fuel their car.

Probably less the oil industries and more the mechanics/repair workshop business.

There are a lot of people out there who want to talk down electric cars because they see their business going down the pan.

Electric cars require a lot less maintenance than petrol cars and are generally more reliable.

I am thinking of getting an electrical car as new house i’m buying has an EV charger and solar panels. My friend has an EV and loves it. Her DP saves £300 a month on fuel. Depends on use, for me it will mainly be journeys up to half an hour. Occasional longer so i’ve have to factor in charging it part way, but i’m seriously considering it.

If you can charge at home then get electric, if you can't stick to petrol!

My Dmum got a very small petrol car from second hand dealer with very little problem - they had a few to show her. It's likely it's her last car - and she was in two minds whether to give up driving completely.

Long term I expect it will go electric cars long term- and we are just in a transition phase - here council estate are getting electric street chargers put in.

When they charge up in the same time as it takes to fill a tank. Then ill get one.

Until then, no thankyou

This is a fascinating website that shows a live view where the UK's electricity is coming from: https://grid.iamkate.com/ as well as historical data.

So for example over the last year, 28% came from fossil fuels, 20% came from nuclear and biomass, and 41% came from renewables.

When you combine that with all the other stuff you wrote that's demonstrably wrong it's quite remarkable how much misinformation you managed to stuff into a single post.

The charging network is getting bigger and better - more fast chargers, higher numbers of chargers and it’s getting easier to pay, ie, just with a debit card rather than needing a specific charging card.

Also, new cars can go a lot further between charges. Therefore, people with home chargers won’t need to use public chargers as often.

Of course they’re the future, how on earth can you think cars powered by fossil fuels will continue? Of course there are different environmental impacts, but that’s the same with everything humans do when it comes to consumption. There are so many environmental issues which aren’t even in the public consciousness (I work in environmental science) - the ones that have cut through like climate change and trying to mitigate it through net zero are because they are the ones most likely to impact human way of life (and survival).

Get a petrol or diesel car now by all means (or a hybrid) if your personal circumstances mean it’s works better for now, but ultimately they will stop being sold.

Nope. We’re getting rid of ours this year and going for plug in hybrid. The range anxiety is real plus the charging network is terrible.

I’m in two minds. We are lucky enough to be able to charge at home and have solar panels so would be very cheap.

However the infrastructure in our part of the country is poor. Charging points are few and far between unless you travel about 25 miles to the nearest big town. Even the local supermarkets have one charging point if that.

I couldn’t charge when i get to work for example. So thats off putting. Also various family members live elsewhere in the country so we travel wuite frequently to visit and i really don’t want to add extra time into a 5 hour journey to charge on the way. Which would be required mileage wise.

Theres also the aspect of things such as towing, we have a caravan, whilst some do offer the ability to tow in terms of weight the mileage range reduction makes it unviable.

So all in all i won’t currently be changing to EV. If theres progress on the above points i would consider it.

That's not far away... There are cars starting to use 400kwh chargers now. Which is 10-80% in 15mins.

Also batteries are more efficient so you can go much further without having to charge so it becomes a human problem rather than a car problem.
You'll need a wee before the car needs a top up!

The wee break not car charge break was one I found recently on a long journey in a friend’s ev, we only have petrol. She set the car charging and her phone beeped to say it was charged when we’d all just had a wee and were just looking in the little shop for snacks. The idea that you’ll have to go find somewhere to fill up your car, not just leave it charging at home or charging while you do something else (like loo break on long journey or the shopping at the supermarket) will probably start to feel more annoying- you don’t have to wait with your ev while it’s charging.

The problem you had OP is no off street parking meaning you can’t charge at home. There is talk of lamppost chargers being installed but I think those won’t happen until more people have EVs in parts of cities with old terrace housing and no drives. For you, I’d buy a petrol car now, perhaps go second hand /not spend a lot and hope in another decade the charging infrastructure for roads like yours has been built. (This assumes you can’t do something like charge your car at work.)

I love my Toyota Yaris hybrid (it’s self charging so you don’t plug it in) It’s basically like a very efficient petrol car. It’s easy to drive, park etc. and was relatively cheap. I think it’s a good option for now & maybe in 5 years or so I’ll look at buying a plug in electric car.

Oh and my friend with the EV had 6 months with an EV but no at home charging as she was having building work done so couldn’t park on her drive and charge.

She managed ok because there was a charging point at the swimming pool she took her dd to 3 times a week (v good swimmer!) plus at our local supermarket, so she could charge while doing something else. Public chargers are more expensive than at home charging, was still significantly cheaper than filling up with a tank of petrol, charge lasted as long as a tank previously would in her car.

I think that the deadline of no more petrol cars on sale from 2030 won't happen. So you can get a small petrol car and know you can use it for its life.

Yes they are. I love mine. Very cheap to run and I haven’t paid for electricity for it in 5 years thanks to solar and free charging at work. I’d never go back

yes…
Pure EVs likely are ‘the future’, but for the present they’re only fit for purpose for some people not everyone. We don’t want a ‘small’ car but we certainly don’t want a massive heavy big EV with limited range either - for us for the foreseeable future the Toyota Corolla touring sports ‘self charging’ hybrids fit our needs.

My old workplace switched all their vehicles to electric. I was surprised at how nice they were to drive and very nippy but omg the range was awful!

Anywhere long distance (which was frequently) meant sat for ages waiting for the stupid car to charge. Hotels rarely have charging points or when they do someone hogs it for their entire stay meaning you have to go driving round looking for one. It’s also not much cheaper, some of the charging points are really expensive.

We have a charging point on our house and we are thinking of switching one of our cars to electric as my husband doesn’t drive much but we aren’t anywhere near the point where we could switch both.

No way are we getting one until things massively improve as regards charging, price and range. Another Toyota Yaris lover here, sooo cheap to run and no range issues.

We don't get most of our electricity from fossil fuels in the UK, but since PP is towards the start of the threat, that will now become a truth.

I'm disappointed that Labour is now going to tax EV car use. Surely they should be encouraging EV use. I would love a VW buzz. The price is eye watering.

If the bus were free and closer to where I live, I'd use it. We are a family of five and the council seem to think that a return bus fare X 5 is better value than using the car I already have. Ditto train fares.