To feel like I am being demoted?

[constantlylactating]

I have worked for a medium sized organisation for the past 5 years. Almost immediately after starting I was given someone to line manage, and I have since built the team from scratch.

I am seen as a senior member of staff, with only my manager between myself and the CEO. I make all of the decisions for my department, in terms of setting the workload, planning out the year ahead month by month. I hold the budget and put together the full income and expenditure budget for the year. I pull together proposals for the board, including intricate income projection figures. Basically, if it's anything to do with my department I have the final say. Obviously my manager can and does suggest things, but he appreciates that I have the experience in this niche area where he does not.

At the start of the year my manager informed me that a new role was being created, sitting in between myself and him- an obvious step up for me, career wise. He said it needed to go external, but that I could also apply.

Recruitment is being handled by a 3rd party, and after an initial chat with them today it turns out that no, I am not being encouraged to apply. There are already 'plenty of applicants with more experience' and the recruiter does not recommend I apply as she does not believe I would even get an interview (?!).

I asked for clarity from my manager and he admitted that no, he does not see me in that role. He said he didn't want to be the one to tell me, which is why he used a 3rd party recruiter.

I will admit, I found both conversations very demotivating.

I have been told my current job is safe. On the surface not much will change for me, AFAIK my job description is not being rewritten. However surely so much of it will change?

I will no longer be the budget holder, no longer the decision maker? I am not even sure if I will retain line management responsibility.

I don't know what to do or how to feel. My manager wants a chat with me next week and I don't even know if I should raise my concerns to him, as it is too late, the job has now been advertised.

IABU - no, you're being too precious/emotional
YANBU - yes it does sound like a demotion.

There’s no future for you here.

Time to do your CV and start looking
for something else.

Don’t stay somewhere you are not appreciated.

sorry this has happened. It’s rubbish.

Have you compared the new job description with your current job?

Thank you, it does feel rubbish. I am going to update my CV tomorrow and start sending it out. In my area of work you usually get jobs through recruitment companies so I will send it on to all of those.

I am sad though, I love my job, get on well with my colleagues, think a lot of the organisation and just not 'ready' to leave if that makes sense. Up until today I was very happy where I am, and would not have considered leaving.

Yes, there are many overlaps, which is why I assumed it would be an obvious step up for me, I am already doing much of the work.

If the new role and your role cross over, legally are they on dodgy ground?

I would seek legal advice before you speak to your manager.

Try calling ACAS.

Good idea thank you.

@constantlylactating

• Ignore the recruiter and apply for the job - not applying gives them an excuse I.e. you didn’t apply.
• Send your CV out and start job hunting.
• If you can afford it pay for an employment lawyer to review both job descriptions and advise you on options.

I am confused as to why they wouldn’t want you in the new role?

I mean why do they need an additional person? Will this person increase profits somehow?

It seems strange

So unreasonable, rooting for you to realise your worth and secure a fabulous promotion elsewhere whilst your current workplace misses your skills everyday.

Logically I think it makes sense to apply for the role even if you treat this as a practice interview.

Without being too outing regarding the type of work I do, they are looking for someone with heaps of experience in two adjacent areas. My manager has said he wants someone new with more experience than I have in one of those areas in particular.

Think of it as I am an expert in area A and pretty good at area B, this job is being described as B WITH A.

So my manager wants someone with more experience than me in B, but despite me being the current expert in A, and the person who has built my team on the premise of A with B, this new person would be managing my team going forward, not me.

I’ve been through similar situations in the past. I found that someone else was give some of my role but I was then expected to “Show them the ropes”! I wasn’t quite petty enough to say it but how could I train someone to do things I wasn’t considered capable of doing myself?
As PPs have said, I suggest you apply for the new role (so no one can say they thought you didn’t want it) but also get CVs out and contact ACAS.

I think you are right, even though it will feel like a farce.

That does sound rubbish, I feel for you. I think that it’s been handled very poorly and your manager sounds rather weak, he should have had the guts to talk to you about it first. I would be updating my CV and looking for a new job, if I were you.

This is it, will i be expected to teach this person how to run my team? The way this new job has been put together is unusual in my area, I have not seen it written like this before.

Does he have a frond he wants to recruit?

Your manager sounds rubbish if he can’t have a difficult conversation with you, even if it’s to alleviate some fears and keep you on side.

Yep unfortunatly you are being demoted to the "deputy (right hand reporting to the new boss) head of the department. So yes you have reached the end of the progression in that company.

Before doing up your CV what are you missing to not be given the job?

As Duvetdayneeded suggested list your role against the new role and your qualifications against the ad. How much more money is involved?

You did the job with no official title.

Is the official title an important thing in your industry?
Are you missing qualifications or training?

Are you going to look for a new job at your current level or look to move up?

If you are missing a title or training would it be better for you long term to stay and hand off your responsibility for a year or so in exchange for an official title for your current level of role and company paid training.

Plus the new person has knowledge you dont have using them as a mentor may be smart to add to your CV

You have an opening as your manager is a woose and feeling guilty use it to your advantage if it will be better for your long term career.

I’ve been there. Is there a potential merger or acquisition on the horizon? Can you use this as a learning opportunity to gain better experience in B? Whenever I have had someone come in ‘above’ me, I make sure they are aware of my duties and I task them with other duties I’m happy to pass over, insurance, HR etc. Make sure you align with the CEO, line managers are usually out for themselves.

This.

You could have a case for constructive dismissal in which case you’d be entitled to a settlement/payment.

Not much more money in it actually, only 4k, which I find odd.

No qualifications missing, it is purely that this role straddles two areas, and I focus mainly on one area with some of the second, whereas my manager had said he wants someone with existing experience managing that second area.

We haven't previously had the budget for me to invest more in that area, which is why it has been less of a priority.

In larger organisations these would be two separate roles, with separate teams. It is unusual to see it set up the way this new job has been.

I would have a long conversation next week. Ask exactly what this new role will do

if it’s taking your stuff off you ask why when you have done it well for years and as you are already doing the role why can’t you apply

i might even apply anyway

if the say they are taking stuff of you to hand to someone more experienced you would not expect to do any training of the new candidate

I would also be honest and telll them that they have completely demotivated you and that you will be looking for a new job

i would then do the bare minimum that have treated you badly

You should apply.
They're encouraging you not to, because it makes their lives easier. In the future, they can say (and the audit trails will back it up) that a promotion opportunity came up but you showed no interest, and did not apply. If you apply, they’ll have to document their reasons to reject you, which may be helpful if they ultimately plan to manage you out.

What absolute fuckers they are....
As if they couldnt have trained up in B if its soooo integral as part of your career development plan

Take this as your sign....you had a good run but its coming to a close now.

100% apply anyway with no intention of taking the job.

Get your CV out there and when you get the new job offer be sure push for garden leave, do the absolute minimum to "train" the new hire. Id walk them through existing processes and let them "ask any questions" and that would be about it.

No idea re acquisition but that is great advice thank you.

In the job description it even says full training will be given where necessary!! Hence why I thought although I didn't have as much experience of B, that wouldn't be a barrier to my applying.

Apply anyway. I cannot stress this strongly enough. Apply and give the best account of yourself in that process. You owe it to yourself. Do not let them bully you into it applying and considering your application.