To feel like I am being demoted?

[constantlylactating]

I have worked for a medium sized organisation for the past 5 years. Almost immediately after starting I was given someone to line manage, and I have since built the team from scratch.

I am seen as a senior member of staff, with only my manager between myself and the CEO. I make all of the decisions for my department, in terms of setting the workload, planning out the year ahead month by month. I hold the budget and put together the full income and expenditure budget for the year. I pull together proposals for the board, including intricate income projection figures. Basically, if it's anything to do with my department I have the final say. Obviously my manager can and does suggest things, but he appreciates that I have the experience in this niche area where he does not.

At the start of the year my manager informed me that a new role was being created, sitting in between myself and him- an obvious step up for me, career wise. He said it needed to go external, but that I could also apply.

Recruitment is being handled by a 3rd party, and after an initial chat with them today it turns out that no, I am not being encouraged to apply. There are already 'plenty of applicants with more experience' and the recruiter does not recommend I apply as she does not believe I would even get an interview (?!).

I asked for clarity from my manager and he admitted that no, he does not see me in that role. He said he didn't want to be the one to tell me, which is why he used a 3rd party recruiter.

I will admit, I found both conversations very demotivating.

I have been told my current job is safe. On the surface not much will change for me, AFAIK my job description is not being rewritten. However surely so much of it will change?

I will no longer be the budget holder, no longer the decision maker? I am not even sure if I will retain line management responsibility.

I don't know what to do or how to feel. My manager wants a chat with me next week and I don't even know if I should raise my concerns to him, as it is too late, the job has now been advertised.

IABU - no, you're being too precious/emotional
YANBU - yes it does sound like a demotion.

100% do apply for the new role for a start

and start applying elsewhere too.

Apply anyway.

The job market is hard. You may be successful. You may not.

Full training to be given. You will excel on some questions. If they use a point scoring system you might score higher. It's unknown.

I would make them say someone is more suitable and if that happens look for another job.

@constantlylactating I've been in a very similar position. I think your time at that organisation is over - I’m so sorry 💐

1. as per pps - apply for the new role anyway
2. speak to recruiters and get yourself out there
3. consult an employment lawyer- you may have grounds to negotiate an exit package
4. if you don’t get the new role (sorry, I expect you won’t) work to rule/ do the bare minimum, refuse to train up the new boss (not in your job description and clearly beyond your skills)
5. Leave with your head held high. (And take any good staff with you 😜)

I would also say you’re at an advantage because you already know the business, so definitely apply. One error some leaders make is that you are so good at what you do, they don’t want to lose you, so stop your promotions. Ask yourself this question, putting your feelings to one side, that you like the job and don’t want to leave. What are you wanting to achieve from this? Is this just a job that you’re happy in? Do you want to progress within this company, how far up the chain can you go and will that be ‘enough’ for you? Is this a stepping stone to bigger things?

Ok for 4k then they either have someone in mind or are just not willing to promote you (bluntly sorry).

You took your area and built a department and have shown you are team player as you are willing to take on out of department functions.

Look at the job market but dont feel obligated to jump until you find the right fit for your next and next promotion. And be ruthless in looking out for yourself.

It was very foolish of them to make it clear that you will not be given the job as it demotivates you. Do a little digging to make sure they are not pushing you out as a cost saver too. But I would apply anyway as its CV and interview prep.

Good luck

This. You must apply. You will make life far too easy for them if you don't and there will be an audit trail. If you meet the criteria how dare they suggest you cant apply!

More articulate version of mine but yes, this.

They dont want you in the role for whatever reason so you wont get it but it makes so much more awkward for them legally.

This feels so personal when it happens and so hurtful but it's really quite universal...

Similar happened to me... I was a rising star for 5 years... (went from 60k to 115k in that time) they basically gave away half my team the only reason i even knew so wasnt totally humiliated / blind sided in a 40 person meeting was a woman/ friend in HR gave me the heads up.
I left and 5 yrs on had doubled my salary again (I earned well over 200k last year)

I know many others with similar stories like this.

Fuck 'em. Take your talents where they are valued.

Never stay in a company where progression seems impossible and from what you say you would be good for this role . I agree with looking for something somewhere you will be appreciated . I’m so sorry

Absolutely apply.
If you're not successful, you know your time here is over & you did everything in your power to stay in a role you enjoyed.

You don't have to rush - best case scenario, the new person may be a great manager, a decent person & give you the breathing space to start learning skill B for the future.
If they're not, get out & take your skills with you.

But you've got the measure of the gutless wonder who is your LM.

I’d not spend my time applying for the role. They couldn’t be clearer from their actions that they don’t want you in the role. However well you think you’re doing (and I’m sure you’re doing just fine) they don’t want you having the level of control you have and/or personally don’t want you (I think the former and a bit of the latter). Telltale sign from your OP is your manager “appreciates” you have the expertise as he doesn’t. I imagine he doesn’t like that and possibly feels nervous things aren’t going as well as they look, but lacks the expertise to judge either way.

Did you glean anything from the particular personal qualities and attributes they specify in the ad - I mean apart from the experience and skills? Did it give you any strong impression or image of the type of person they're seeking and how far did it seem to match you or not?

If they truly valued you they could have recruited someone under you who did have knowledge of area B to then assist you with the things you dont currently do. You could have then continued with the management side of it plus area A. dd

1. This, especially if you don’t get the new role (sorry, I expect you won’t) work to rule/ do the bare minimum, refuse to train up the new boss (not in your job description and clearly beyond your skills)

as absolutely whoever they have inline for the post will absolutely need your guidance and support, which will turn into you doing the job… but then getting the salary and recognition… so it’ll be about feeling confident enough to bat it back… “ah am sure Cristabel is more proficient in this than me of course”

My first thought on reading what the recruiter had said was to say apply anyway. Recruiters often get finders fees and commission for providing applicants and then fees if applicants are successful - so by putting you off applying they are removing the competition for their bonus

As for your line manager and why they are bringing in this role, it sounds like they have an ill advised strategy both for the management of A & B as you say but also in engaging you and your morale in how this has been handled

I would apply, give it your best shot and if you don’t get it leave anyway - and defo contact ACAS for advice as it is so similar to your current role. Good luck

What's the male/female ratio in senior leadership like? Wondering if this is a case of your face not fitting because your manager just doesn't really "get on with" women and wants a guy in role?

Agree with those saying apply anyway. Good prep and means they can't say there was an opportunity but you weren't interested should things get legal. But I would be looking elsewhere any way. Even if you actually get offered the job, take but apply for something new (stay for a while to embed the job in your CV if that's likely to be helpful). This is not a company to stay at unless your current manager leaves.

Don't know if you are being demoted as such but obviously you can never climb higher in this company than your present position. So maybe time to look for a new job.
As for the new job, definitely apply for it. If they treat you unfairly, it would be good to have the evidence.
If you don't get the higher position, as you think you won't, and you are still at this place when the newbie arrives, I would go in for a spot of "quiet quitting" while ramping up my job search.

They have used you and you are too good for them. Get out of there with your head held high.

This is cracking advice.

If you can stomach it, it’s a great strategic plan serving you, your needs and paving the future path giving you choices built on an opportunity provided by this company.
Milk it, wringing out every advantage available to you.
In the mean time, ear to the ground, take your time to find the exact right fit for you rather than knee jerk based on feeling upset & sad.
Get a business head on and keep it on.

Absolutely feel pissed off though, it’s a shitty thing that’s happening to you, but use it to your advantage.

Good luck!

Yes i think this is what I will do, thank yoi

This is what I have been told for 3 years would happen!

Your relationship with your manager is pretty much toast now anyway.

I'd follow up in writing to your manager, your conversation with the recruiter and your manager by putting a summary of the points discussed and request that you had understood correctly that you would not even be offered an interview and request the reasons why your manager does not see you in this role, even though the role encompasses a large proportion of your current role, with a formal request as to what your new role will be once they have recruited this new person to do your role. And request why the consideration would not be to simply fund the expansion of A to B instead.

I'd record any further conversations and tell them you need to record these conversations going forward for future reference, and always follow up with 'my notes from the meeting were x, am I correct in my understanding?'

1. Apply if you want the role. Now that has been advertised, you have the full on job description, so you can see if it fits what you are doing now.
2. Look for other jobs too. You are likely to find that roles handling what you do are actually paid more.
3. Do ask your manager the specific reasons why he does not see you in the new role and feedback on your current performance. Just do not be emotional. Just matter of fact. And, if possible, get it in written.

I think you will find another job and leave. Even if they give you that role, at the end.
These guys are shady. They let you do all the work and then reward someone else. Well, you got the experience and know how now, so you can fly to better places.

Just to point out that for the constructive dismissal route (if you want to leave with a package) you need to be very careful om what you communicate back to your manager and others on the job.
Its ok to put things on hold as you take a day or two to work out if you want to go that way.

If the new recruit would be taking on your role, what will you do?

have you considered the potential this is constructive dismissal? I'm not saying it is but it does have the hallmarks.

as previously stated, it doesn't seem rational for a senior leader to commit this repudiatory breach of contract (which either breaches the terms and conditions of your employment, or evidences some detriment to the contractual trust and confidence in the employer/employee relationship) unless they have cause to do so. Why try to fix what isn't broken? In other words, if you have glowing references and end of year reports have been exemplary it makes no sense at all.

if you needed to gain expertise in B then why wouldn't they provide that support to gain that expertise. Bringing in a new recruit for what seems like a pivotal leadership role is fraught with risks, not least of all the harm to the presumably strong relationship with a skilled member of staff who is working well and delivering.

the trouble with constructive dismissal is that the risk fall on the employee because you'd have to resign immediately citing CD, otherwise it could be deemed as you accepting the situation. You'd also have to go through the internal grievance process. They could play hardball and say see you in court. That's all at your risk.

undoubtedly they are putting you in the unenviable position of seeing someone come in and take over many of the duties you perform. So you could sit tight and play a waiting game, because if that did happen you could argue you didn't resign because you were waiting to see how the situation evolved. An altogether unbearable situation.

Just goes to show look after your own needs and rights first, be loyal only to yourself nobody else will

Apply anyway.

But also keep in mind that this may just be about a wider business context and not you individually, or about demoting you.

You’ve said that B is an area that there previously hasn’t been the budget to expand efforts in. There may now be a desire to do that, and sometim a to make those plans work you have to take specific approaches organisationally. It might not be the negative that you assume it will be. It absolutely will r if you take the childish petty approaches that some people have been suggesting on this thread.

Applynprofessionally. Continue doing your job well. If you don’t get it, give things a go as it being an opportunity to both A & B to expand their part in the organisation as there’s now doubl the capacity for those at your experience level than thei used to be.