To feel like I am being demoted?

[constantlylactating]

I have worked for a medium sized organisation for the past 5 years. Almost immediately after starting I was given someone to line manage, and I have since built the team from scratch.

I am seen as a senior member of staff, with only my manager between myself and the CEO. I make all of the decisions for my department, in terms of setting the workload, planning out the year ahead month by month. I hold the budget and put together the full income and expenditure budget for the year. I pull together proposals for the board, including intricate income projection figures. Basically, if it's anything to do with my department I have the final say. Obviously my manager can and does suggest things, but he appreciates that I have the experience in this niche area where he does not.

At the start of the year my manager informed me that a new role was being created, sitting in between myself and him- an obvious step up for me, career wise. He said it needed to go external, but that I could also apply.

Recruitment is being handled by a 3rd party, and after an initial chat with them today it turns out that no, I am not being encouraged to apply. There are already 'plenty of applicants with more experience' and the recruiter does not recommend I apply as she does not believe I would even get an interview (?!).

I asked for clarity from my manager and he admitted that no, he does not see me in that role. He said he didn't want to be the one to tell me, which is why he used a 3rd party recruiter.

I will admit, I found both conversations very demotivating.

I have been told my current job is safe. On the surface not much will change for me, AFAIK my job description is not being rewritten. However surely so much of it will change?

I will no longer be the budget holder, no longer the decision maker? I am not even sure if I will retain line management responsibility.

I don't know what to do or how to feel. My manager wants a chat with me next week and I don't even know if I should raise my concerns to him, as it is too late, the job has now been advertised.

IABU - no, you're being too precious/emotional
YANBU - yes it does sound like a demotion.

Your Manager had singularly failed in managing you by outsourcing that discussion to a 3rd party recruiter. I would lose all faith in them.

Yes still apply if you want the job. I assume you are Female - it is well known that women apply for jobs they can do, whilst men apply for jobs that stretch their current skills and develop into them.
And definitely brush up your CV and look around.

I would also be very clear with your Shite Manager that no interview = no option but to look for other opportunities, having been led to believe for 3 years that training and development was to be given to allow you to progress internally.

And if your job is already full on, where is the extra resource for training someone new!!??

I'd be looking for something new. The CEO obviously has you pigeon holed and is unwilling to support your development. This is not uncommon. I'd just jump ship.

Op, In your op you say you’re not sure if you will be managing your team then you say you won’t be.

has it been confirmed to you will will lose all supervisory responsibility and move to a sole contributor role? This is really important to clarify.

If the new person can do A and B, then I’d expect a redundancy to be incoming fairly shortly due to a ‘restructure’.
Sorry this has happened, I’ve been in a similar situation and it’s unlikely you’ll ever really be happy there again, and you’ve come to the end of the road with that employer. They sound pretty shit anyway, especially your line manager.

You’re right to update your CV. Good luck with the job hunting.

@constantlylactating

Agree with PPs, apply for the role and also look for roles elsewhere. If someone comes in above you before you’re ready/able to move, nurture the relationship. Learn what you can from them etc.

This is pathetic behaviour by your boss and it’s no wonder that you feel upset and demotivated.

But your task here is to approach matters with a cool mind and make this situation work as well as possible for you so you can get the most from it, even though it’s not what you would have chosen.

What is the relationship like between you and your manager? It sounds like they have found a reason to bring another role in so your manager doesn’t have to directly work with / manage you any more, especially as they didn’t feel able to feel your directly not to apply and 3rd party has told you instead.

Do you get on well with your manager? Are you friendly, super professional? Do you take on board their suggestions? Do you get into big discussions about things or argue with them about their suggestions? Do you always do things the same way and have been for years, do you show innovation for example?

Its not right to go about things this way but there must be a reason why are bringing someone else instead of than developing you into the role. Agree with other PPs there will be little point fighting this given recruitment is in progress.

When you’re not considered for a role you think you could do, it’s time to leave.

I'm sorry to say it sounds like you're being managed out. As others have said, apply for the role and start thinking about if there's particular training/upskilling you need to boost your CV. Then try and find a new job, ideally before you have to hand over to this new person.

Could your manager be leaving?

Why was the new role created? Have they already said how it would also change your job description or are we just guessing for the time being? Even if I could pay I wouldn't after CEO saying not seeing you in that role.

I’d consult legal advice like another poster said, 100% apply for the job, make them reject you directly - right now your manager can deny everything, knowing they have ti reject your application formally should make them a little more uncomfortable. The job structure is a fuck off to you, so also apply elsewhere and start now.

No i don't actually know yet- it's my assumption, because I'm not sure how it would work, that would be a very linear structure, person A coming in to manage me whilst I continue to manage? Odd.

We get on really well, or so I thought. I am given freedom to make decisions for the team with his support if needed. I have just had my annual appraisal which was glowing?

He buys me thoughtful gifts at Christmas, always asks how I am on a personal level.

I had a meeting the previous day where he asked if I could present some projections directly to the board as he said he doesn't have the same knowledge.

I doubt it, he's got it quite cushy at the minute.

I’m sorry. Yes, you are being demoted and given your manager does not support you I don’t see a real future for you at this company. It happened to me, it’s really shit. By all means talk to ACAS and apply but I doubt you’ll get far with either. I’d focus most of your energy on getting out there and finding another job while you can still put head of department on the CV.

I would just say it’s worth being honest with your manager when you speak to him. Tell him outright that if this goes through and you don’t get the job you are leaving. The “flight risk” of other key staff is often taken into account in hiring decisions, so you never know.

So sorry to hear this. It happened to me too. Hard facts is that anything you do it wont change their minds. Hang on in there and look for something else if that's a viable option. All the very best.

@constantlylactating given that the wimp
of a manager couldn’t even face an honest conversation with you about your role and got a third party to discuss it I’d never trust a word out of his mouth going forward.

have you copies of all annual appraisals etc you’ve undergone?

im not sure if legally they can tell you not to apply for a role especially when you actually do tick boxes and already undertake most of it.

have you access to HR? I’d definitely contact acas pronto.

Why apply for role that they dont want you to have?

Its harsh, but they want someone new with experience in B.

Try and reframe it, someone else will be taking all the responsibility from you, for just 4k. Your money doesnt change and use the spare time you'll have to look for something else if you really want to.

Given your manager has said he doesn't see you in the role, I think I would not apply. I would start looking for other jobs though. There is something going on with him that he doesn't feel able to tell you, which is crap really, since you can't then work on it.

Either way, I'd feel disconcerted and demotivated.

Apply for the job and if you don't get it I would be looking to move on. Is the job description what you actually do in your current role? If so I don't see how they could NOT give you an interview.

I’d still apply - I’d put in an absolutely glowing application in and make them sweat.

I would also start a paper trail - I’d say that you understand from discussion with the recruiter and subsequently with himself on x date that he doesn’t see you in that role but that you have considered the job spec and your skills and that you will be pursuing an application and that you hope you will be given a fair opportunity in the application process for the role.

It sounds like your boss has told the recruiter not to proceed with you? How would they really know until they had your application?

also, as an internal candidate, shouldn’t you get an interview in any case? That’s the rule in our place.

if you aren’t successful at getting an interview, please ask for their marking criteria and scores.

this really stinks but applying will at least give you some evidence.

Apply because the OP is not sure of why senior managment went for a new hire rather than her.

It could be they have decided her face is nolonger a fit and the long term plan is to manage her out. But first they need to hire and train her replacement.

If the new hire is not a (massive) impovement by way of skill set the management have to justify the hire and the constructive dismissal.

The OP should be job hunting but should apply for the internal job too as its an interview and a hostile one at that.

I wouldn't quiet quit. It is very easy for you to get a poor reputation in an industry. People talk. Showing you should have got the job or they recruited the wrong person might be a small win, but they are not going to rush into saying how they got it wrong. It will just reflect on you. You are going to feel pissed off about the situation but retaliation through doing the minimum etc can easily backfire and whilst it might make you feel good for a while it's not the right strategy and it actually creates a synical mindset that is hard to get out of. Apply for the job, get feedback on why you didn't get it, if you don't. When new person comes in work with them and become valuable to them so you can learn from them in Area B. When you have maximised this then apply for other jobs. You are going to be at your current workplace until you leave so get the most from it. Showing someone senior how to do their job when you didn't get it is rubbish, but it happens regularly and reacting positively while you plan you exit isn't a sign of weakness. It's acting straregically for your benefit. Good luck.

The bar for constructive dismissal is very high. Highly unlikely this situation comes anywhere near it. Having functions taken away or external candidates taking on established roles would come no where near the criteria. You are talking about things like being required to do unsafe work, bullying, significant changes to your contract like change from day to night working without consultation. It has to be so 'serious' that you can not continue to work there. The burden of proof is on the employee too.
I wouln't be considering this as an option.