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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To partially disagree with the argument about the 'second shift' made by some WASPIS?

301 replies

Carla786 · 15/02/2026 19:47

I know that workplace discrimination was rife for women who were born in the 1950s. Lack of childcare etc. I'm not disputing that.

I disagree partly with the argument made by some WASPIS that the 'second shift' (housework/childcare) they had to do while in paid work is important to their case.

For one thing, women in the 1970s & 80s were more likely to work less hours, work part-time. Men were more likely to work longer hours, do more overtime. Obviously this was fuelled by discrimination, lack of childcare that I mentioned above.

This ties to my other point : in the 70s & 80s raising children was often less labour-intensive than today, in the sense that children played out a lot more, ferrying to many activities was less common, parental input even in primary school was generally a bit less intense than expected often today. Studies (I'll link) have shown mothers (and fathers) spend longer with their kids today, whether or not they work.

So I suppose my point is: did that many WASPI age women experience a second shift as such?
I'm not disputing the misogyny of the era often but otoh if childcare was less labour-intensive than today, and many women were SAHM, part time, and less likely to work overtime, were a lot of women necessarily experiencing a 'second shift' in the sense of spending more hours working than their husband? In this equation, housework and childcare are counted as work, as well as paid work.

OP posts:
Carla786 · 15/02/2026 19:59

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&rct=j&url=www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2026/01/09/millennials-spend-more-time-than-past-generations-with-their-children%23:~:text%3DData%2520from%2520the%2520American%2520Heritage,more%2520fatherly%2520facetime%2520is%2520clear.&ved=2ahUKEwjBqb74odySAxVjQ0EAHb5FBR4Q1fkOegQIBRAN&opi=89978449&cd&psig=AOvVaw20JKXEbE58iGq9ucHt0x_J&ust=1771271304443000

Here's one article claiming this, though I do need to check. There does seem to be evidence that childcare has become more intensive in the last 20-30 years.

Redirect Notice

https://www.google.com/url?cd=&opi=89978449&psig=AOvVaw20JKXEbE58iGq9ucHt0x_J&rct=j&sa=i&source=web&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fgraphic-detail%2F2026%2F01%2F09%2Fmillennials-spend-more-time-than-past-generations-with-their-children%23%3A%7E%3Atext%3DData%2520from%2520the%2520American%2520Heritage%2Cmore%2520fatherly%2520facetime%2520is%2520clear.&ust=1771271304443000&ved=2ahUKEwjBqb74odySAxVjQ0EAHb5FBR4Q1fkOegQIBRAN

OP posts:
Dontlletmedownbruce · 15/02/2026 20:02

What's a WASPIS?

Carla786 · 15/02/2026 20:03

To be clear, I don't want to focus on the WASPI issue as a whole, more on whether specifically the second shift argument is valid.

OP posts:
Carla786 · 15/02/2026 20:03

Dontlletmedownbruce · 15/02/2026 20:02

What's a WASPIS?

Sorry! Women Against State Pension Inequality. The campaign was for women born from 1950-1960.

OP posts:
grannygrinch · 15/02/2026 20:03

I think it was actually more labour intensive. Housework definitely was no tumble drying automatic washers , fancy hoovers, microwave ovens, frozen food . Things were definitely not as easy as they are now.

tripleginandtonic · 15/02/2026 20:04

Housework was more labour intensive though.

Carla786 · 15/02/2026 20:05

grannygrinch · 15/02/2026 20:03

I think it was actually more labour intensive. Housework definitely was no tumble drying automatic washers , fancy hoovers, microwave ovens, frozen food . Things were definitely not as easy as they are now.

That's a good point re housework, I'd overlooked that. My grandmother was born in the 1930s and she used a mangle, other things took longer too.

OP posts:
Carla786 · 15/02/2026 20:07

grannygrinch · 15/02/2026 20:03

I think it was actually more labour intensive. Housework definitely was no tumble drying automatic washers , fancy hoovers, microwave ovens, frozen food . Things were definitely not as easy as they are now.

Re automatic washers, these were available in the 70s and more common in the 80s though, I think? Obviously many would not have been able to afford.

OP posts:
Carla786 · 15/02/2026 20:08

grannygrinch · 15/02/2026 20:03

I think it was actually more labour intensive. Housework definitely was no tumble drying automatic washers , fancy hoovers, microwave ovens, frozen food . Things were definitely not as easy as they are now.

Re frozen food, I think that was available since the 50s? And more common by 70s?

OP posts:
MaxandMeg · 15/02/2026 20:08

grannygrinch · 15/02/2026 20:03

I think it was actually more labour intensive. Housework definitely was no tumble drying automatic washers , fancy hoovers, microwave ovens, frozen food . Things were definitely not as easy as they are now.

Married 1970. Had all that stuff though dishwasher not until 1975 and microwave maybe the same. Towelling nappies though🤨 la

HoorayHattie · 15/02/2026 20:08

tripleginandtonic · 15/02/2026 20:04

Housework was more labour intensive though.

Definitely this!

I remember my DM washing terry nappies by hand, shopping daily for groceries as she had to carry everything home, scrubbing linoleum floors on her hands & knees, and there was always a bit ironing pile and a mending basket

All cooking was done from scratch, she grew vegetables, knitted all our jumpers and did a lot of sewing.

napody · 15/02/2026 20:09

grannygrinch · 15/02/2026 20:03

I think it was actually more labour intensive. Housework definitely was no tumble drying automatic washers , fancy hoovers, microwave ovens, frozen food . Things were definitely not as easy as they are now.

Exactly what I was going to say. And the judgment for not scrubbing your front step and washing your windows was intense.

Have you ever had a conversation with your grandmother and listened?

Yesitsmeimback · 15/02/2026 20:10

Married early 80s not much money at all of course we had washing machines etc. Honestly it was the 1980s not 1880

Lunde · 15/02/2026 20:11

Also classifications of work were different. Employers (even the public sector) often categorised women's work as "part time" to avoid equal pay and benefits.

I once upon a time was responsible for auditing public sector industrial pay where men worked 40 hours/week for full pension and sickness etc benefits whereas women worked 39½ hours/week and were categorised as "part time" so not entitled to full benfirs.

moggerhanger · 15/02/2026 20:13

I grew up in the 70s and 80s. We weren't well off at all, but we had a top-loading washing machine and a spin dryer, and ate plenty of ready-prepped frozen/tinned food.

gototogo · 15/02/2026 20:14

My mum was forced to leave work when pregnant with me. You cannot get away from that fact. Childrearing was probably more labour intensive because there was less childcare, holiday clubs, activities etc my mum had us all the time and we didn’t play out, certainly no more than my own kids. I’m one of the last years to start working with an age 60 pension age btw.

tirednessbecomesme · 15/02/2026 20:15

Physically housework would have been harder - no tumble dryer, absolutely everything would be ironed! My mother is that generation and she still irons towels and king size bed sheets!! No steam
mops or cordless hoovers or self cleaning ovens. All meals were home cooked - no microwaves - a lot more prep - no ready made sauces and microwave meals or takeaways

I agree that the “second shift” doesn’t really relate to childcare per se since yes children were a lot more independent and there was little parental interaction - my parents are aghast at the number of sports and clubs my kids do that I have to ferry them to to - I don’t force them it’s just the “norm” not to mention the kids who also do a martial art, language or music lesson. I don’t recall the level of homework being the same - my kids have had homework since reception that takes up a good portion of Sundays

gototogo · 15/02/2026 20:16

We got an automatic washing machine in 1979 and a microwave in 1986, we did buy frozen food from Bejams monthly but 95% of food was made from scratch including cakes etc.

Overthebow · 15/02/2026 20:17

grannygrinch · 15/02/2026 20:03

I think it was actually more labour intensive. Housework definitely was no tumble drying automatic washers , fancy hoovers, microwave ovens, frozen food . Things were definitely not as easy as they are now.

Do you know the age of WASPI women? My mum is a WASPI, I’m in my late 30s. Growing up we had a tumble dryer, hoover, microwave, and frozen food.

MidnightPatrol · 15/02/2026 20:17

Can you explain why this ‘second shift’ is relevant to their case?

Carla786 · 15/02/2026 20:19

napody · 15/02/2026 20:09

Exactly what I was going to say. And the judgment for not scrubbing your front step and washing your windows was intense.

Have you ever had a conversation with your grandmother and listened?

I live with her! (Gen Z, for context) We have talked loads about her life.
I think overall she found housework in 60s & 70s less stressful as she was a SAHM. There were some things to help (ready meals in 80s made things easier) but the stress she focuses on was more to do with managing the kids' commute to schools in 3 different areas, then managing once she got back to work in the 80s.

I know it was different for many people, and it varied based on what help you had, what equipment etc

On front step issues, ours is a very dark grey, dirt does not show up. She can't recall scrubbing it, my mum can't remember that happening either.

OP posts:
Yesitsmeimback · 15/02/2026 20:19

1984 I got a microwave just after I had my first baby.
Appliances I had in 1984
washing machine (front loading)
Fridge
Freezer
Tumble dryer
Microwave
Vacuum cleaner
I didn't wash floors on my hands and knees I had a mop lol

Strumpetpumpet · 15/02/2026 20:20

WASPIs are a few years older than me - they were born in the 1950s not the 1850s. I’m 58 so my mum is much older than them, and I can confirm we definitely had a washing machine when I was growing up - and pretty much all the families I knew could manage to buy a house on one full time salary, so most of our mums either worked part time or not at all…

Carla786 · 15/02/2026 20:20

MidnightPatrol · 15/02/2026 20:17

Can you explain why this ‘second shift’ is relevant to their case?

I've seen WASPI women argue on here that the lower retirement age was compensation for the second shift. I don't think it was meant that way though.

OP posts:
SilverPink · 15/02/2026 20:20

grannygrinch · 15/02/2026 20:03

I think it was actually more labour intensive. Housework definitely was no tumble drying automatic washers , fancy hoovers, microwave ovens, frozen food . Things were definitely not as easy as they are now.

I agree with this. We had a twin tub washing machine in the 80s. Also weekly shopping was often done at several different places, several times a week, and on the bus.
But I do agree with OP that parents didn’t invest the time in us like we do with our kids. We spent a lot of time entertaining ourselves, we weren’t ferried to multiple after school clubs and our parents weren’t down at school every 5 minutes for concerts, plays, assemblies, parent dinners, whatever.

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