To partially disagree with the argument about the 'second shift' made by some WASPIS?

[Carla786]

I know that workplace discrimination was rife for women who were born in the 1950s. Lack of childcare etc. I'm not disputing that.

I disagree partly with the argument made by some WASPIS that the 'second shift' (housework/childcare) they had to do while in paid work is important to their case.

For one thing, women in the 1970s & 80s were more likely to work less hours, work part-time. Men were more likely to work longer hours, do more overtime. Obviously this was fuelled by discrimination, lack of childcare that I mentioned above.

This ties to my other point : in the 70s & 80s raising children was often less labour-intensive than today, in the sense that children played out a lot more, ferrying to many activities was less common, parental input even in primary school was generally a bit less intense than expected often today. Studies (I'll link) have shown mothers (and fathers) spend longer with their kids today, whether or not they work.

So I suppose my point is: did that many WASPI age women experience a second shift as such?
I'm not disputing the misogyny of the era often but otoh if childcare was less labour-intensive than today, and many women were SAHM, part time, and less likely to work overtime, were a lot of women necessarily experiencing a 'second shift' in the sense of spending more hours working than their husband? In this equation, housework and childcare are counted as work, as well as paid work.

Not in my world, I was born in the 70’s. My mother had a proper fridge freezer, an automatic washing machine and a drier. We weren’t rich as my Dad was a heavy drinker and both parents smoked. We almost lost the house twice but we still had modern appliances.

This is true, I may well be underestimating sewing/knitting as this doesn't seem to have been a big thing for my family then. I get the argument re shows/performances etc for kids who were doing dance & drama.

By the 1970s most children’s clothes were shop-bought. Ready-made clothing had become much cheaper and widely available.

Dress-up days were also much less frequent than they are now from what I can find out.

Ah right, sorry. I was just checking.

I think there are a whole lot of people on this thread confusing
'What housework was like for women in the 1950s'

with
'What housework was like for women who were born in the 1950s'

Some of these women are only 5 years older than me (born early 60s).
Growing up we (my parents) had a washing machine, a microwave, (from mid 70s) a tumble dryer, a dishwasher, and other things people are suggesting weren't common. We were by no means wealthy, nor unusual.
We weren't then running houses / having our dc until the late 198s / into the 1990s.

Exactly. I think my old headmistress said this once in assembly & it's true. The brain needs time to take in new info, daydream, imagine etc. If you have constant stimulation (definitely overtimulation) you don't have that.

This is an interesting question but given there is still a gender pay gap and this is partly due to mostly women building their paid working lives around childcare, I don't see how it it could be any less true in the 1970s and 80s.

I think your user name disproves this! In the 70s and 80s children did just as many activities and no parent had their child minded by a screen.

Same here. The idea that somebody born in 1969, who might easily have had her children after 2000, was hand-washing terry nappies with a washboard and mangle, is hilarious.

My mum is a WASPI - she worked part time, had a washing machine and tumble dryer, we grew up in the 80s and ate frozen food, rarely fresh food. Walked home from school alone and then played out with friends. No extra curricular activities. Parenting was pretty lax in the 1980s and they had the benefit of household appliances. Regarding the WASPI issue - I ask mum if she received the letters the government sent at the time about pension and she can’t remember. But of course thinks she’s due compo…..

I'm a WASPI, born mid 50s. When I married in the 1970s I had an automatic washing machine & not long after that a tumble drier. Got a feeezer in the 80s. I've never had a dishwasher, but that was due to lack of space really. I didn't get a microwave until about 8 years ago because I couldn't see the need and it gets little use even now.

As for appliances being less efficient, I'd argue the opposite is true. Of my the washing machines I've had since the 1980s, my current one is less efficient in terms of the results it gives me. Does it use less power/water? Maybe, but I'd go back to my old machines like a shot. It also has less flexibility in the programmes (but strangely some I never use) My current vacuum cleaner is nowhere near as good as the two I had before it.

By the way, I don't agree that WASPI women should be compensated. As a country, can't afford it

Yes this is what I believed to be the issue for these women, it happened to my mum, not enough notice for them at all. I dont think any of them are saying they believe they should be retiring 5 years before men (at that point they weren't anyway) just that they needed to have known earlier. Surely no one would be ok with this?

My kids were born late 70s. I used to go into school every week to listen to struggling readers, read. I also went in and did a cooking session with small groups of children. I ferried my DC to swimming club several times a week, football club, music school, choir, violin lessons and piano lessons.

Kids weren’t feral in the 1970s.

I think a huge proportion of kids now have sustained huge developmental damage from some combination of COVID lockdowns and iPad/Cocomelon-style "entertainment" and this makes them dysregulated enough to be feral.

My mum had me at 40 years old in 1967, she worked full time and looked after an elderly relative. She didn’t drive so getting groceries was challenging for her. No supermarket deliveries. She cooked much more from scratch. I remember going to dance classes and her making all the outfits I needed for the shows( no Amazon). Life was a lot tougher! Just because women are anti risk now and don’t let their kids play out doesn’t mean they work harder in the home.

I'm not saying kids were feral & I agree clubs did exist. I think they were a bit less common though. My mother remembers doing ballet & Brownies briefly but she didn't take to it, she did tennis & swimming a bit longer but not that long. Her 2 brothers did Scouts and some football but not a huge amount. I don't think this was super unusual.

Of course plenty of people did do a major activity or more than one but overall I think it was less common than now.

Unfortunately yes...the stats about kids in nappies in Reception are scary, other stuff too
..

Good point, probably many are reading it as women who came of age in 50s rather than were born then.

WASPI women were born in 1950s though, someone born in 1969 is not a WASPI.

I'm not wholly sure about that re screens. My mother for one does feel my grandmother was mainly very good but used the TV as an occupier too much. She remembers being jealous of a friend whose mother often read to her (my grandmother was too busy after she went back to work mid-70s). She was actually bought a lot of nice Puffin books but only read most of them later on when she was raising me!
Otoh my mother did spend plenty of time playing with dolls, riding her bike etc, her level of screen time can't have been that high.
As I said in pp, I know a lot of kids did do activities then but I think it is generally higher now.

Can we afford it though? I think there was wrongdoing if letters etc weren't sent but otoh how much money do we have?

There were plenty of children going to the same activities that my DC went to in the 1980s. You are relying way too much on anecdotal evidence.

I know a lot of children did do these activities. Doing a large number of different ones that required chauffeuring etc
A lot had one activity (like swimming, Brownies/Scouts, football or piano) or none at all, and much more unstructured free time.
The modern pattern of multiple weekly, parent-driven clubs is much more recent overall.

I was a teen in the 70s and hoovers were just the same as the one I'm using now.

I didn't have a washing machine until 1981 - and it was still a sign of being 'better off'. Laundrettes until then. Born 1955.

I recognise doing the shopping daily, due to having to carry it home (after work).

I would say that, after checking (I suspected but thought I had misremembered), my grandmother didn't have a washing machine until the mid-1980s. This was unusual in the neighbourhood though, as was not having central heating. Washing was a big chore, but she did have other stuff like a freezer etc