12pts in a week - driving ban

[Jarofgoodness]

I can't believe that this is happening.

I am normally such a careful driver. I hate speeding, always use the speed limiter on my car and have never had even 3pts on my licence in almost 30 years of driving.

Last month I worked away from home for a week, and on the way to my temporary workplace there was a road which I thought was a 30mph road but which was actually a 20. I got caught speeding (high 20s) every single day, and yesterday received four speeding fines in the post at once. £400 in fines but also 12pts which means a mandatory six month driving ban!

I simply cannot believe that this is happening. I know that it is my responsibility to know the speed limit, and that I shouldn't break it. But this punishment seems wildly excessive and unfair to me. I have 30 years of spotless driving, and have not suddenly become dangerous in a week. Surely someone can see the pattern here and note that it was multiple times making the same simple mistake in exactly the same place? I didn't even have time to reflect on one speeding ticket and change my driving behaviour because they all arrived at once, after I had left the area!

What can i do? I am not expecting sympathy as I know I am only receiving the punishment due to me. But I may well lose my job. The form says that I can plead 'exceptional hardship' in court but that losing employment doesn't count.

I see boy racers all the time and yet I am getting banned! It just seems such an unfairness.

Yup. That is until reform get in and they change it all back cos they'd rather people die than go a bit slower

It was a 20mph zone and the OP was doing late 20's! It's not that often that you see 20mph zones and even then many are only active at certain times for schools.

Do you really know what it's like though to drive on unfamiliar roads though? You are being very harsh and you pretended she was going much faster than she was! There's a lot of roads out there where speed limits chop and change without logic! There are alsoaby roads out there where you can be looking to see speed limit signage and find there's none! You are being very over the top of what was still a very low speed! Late 20"s isn't racing along is it! You won't be perfect on the roads either!

That’s useful to know before a trip to wales - dh there in a couple of weeks. I will warn him!

@bumblingbovine49 there will be a 20 mph sign in Wales when you enter a 20 zone. It’s not as if you’re expected to know automatically! The main difference from England is that there won’t be repeaters. If your journey starts within a 20 zone - perhaps from a hotel or residential address then you will have entered that zone on your way to that location and seen a 20mph sign.

All this talk about not knowing about the speed limits in Wales - if you look at the signs it doesn’t matter. Just as I didn’t know in advance about some 20 zones in Oxford when I visited recently.

@Jarofgoodness your defence rests on the presence and visibility of 20mph signs. Have you established those facts yet?

You should have the option to do a speed awareness course and then I would appeal to the judge. Was there clear signage on the road? I would have a look on google maps and check.

It's easy to be judgmental but it's a fact of life when driving on unfamiliar roads that there are long stretches of roads out there with no speed limit signs or signs that have disappeared into greenery. My partner and I drive to airports and airport hotels a number of times a year and if I had a quid for everytime my partner was puzzled and looking for non existent speed limit signs and asking what the speed limit is. The real world isn't the same as the judgemental one.

Definitely see a solicitor as soon as you can OP, you have my total sympathy, this could happen to anybody

Sorry to be rude, but I don't think that's correct. May be so in Wales, but not in the rest of the UK AFAIK.

Always best to err on the side of caution though, and doing 20 is probably a good idea anyway (just in case) and the speed bumps are less likely to do damage to your car if you're doing 20.

Yep! NEVER take speeding points for someone else.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/mar/11/chris-huhne-vicky-pryce

She was still in the 20's, she wasn't doing 60 was she! You don't need to go over the top! If kids are stepping out in front of a car doing 27mph then there's a parenting fail! How much difference do you think just a few miles per hour makes! You don't need to exaggerate just to try and make the OP feel guilty! It was still a low speed! And you haven't seen the road with your your own eyes to judge! Also as another FYI, 20mph zones outside schools only tend to be active during school drop off and pick up times which means for most of us commuting to work, we pass schools before and after those times.

They introduced 20mph zones because the risk of severe injury is greatly reduced. Saying it's not much slower than 30 is beside the point.

A few miles an hour can make a huge difference.

@Jarofgoodness you need a solicitor and fight it .
It has to be shown you knowingly ment to break the speeding limit.

I think it will be fine . Nobody does that every day knowing they would loose their license. With your record I think the judge would be lenient .

You need to check whether there were signs up for the temporary speed limit as if there were it doesn’t bode well for your driving awareness that you managed to miss repeating speed signs for four days in a row. Repeat offending on the same stretch of road shows a massive lack of attention to your surroundings and that will surely be pointed out to you by any judge in court. You need to contact a specialist solicitor and show how this will affect you adversely as there are times where people don’t get banned, but I don’t think arguing that 4 offences on the same road in the same week would go in your favour, if anything it makes it look worse.

That’s really not true anymore. Many cities and councils have 20mph zones. Very few are time dependent.

Exactly. Every 1mph increase in speed increases the likelihood of a fatal impact by about 4%. Speed increases affect the forces exponentially and not in a linear format. Speed limits are there for a reason and a few miles per hour can be the difference in life or death. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is being ignorant of the facts.

If you “don’t think the signs are as clear as they should be” maybe it’s time for an eye test and consider if you should still be driving?

Definitely seek solicitor advice. Is there the opportunity to do a speed awareness course and bring it down to 9 points that way?

Obviously fines and points are automated, with the right solicitor if you are apologetic and highlight you obviously wouldn't have sped multiple times in the same place had you known. Was it a speed camera? I assume you saw said speed camera and made sure you were doing 30.

I'd check the area for signage and take some photos, I'd look on google maps but that could be outdated.
I really feel for you OP, we all miss a sign now and then its unfortunate its happened to you when a camera is around.

My DH and I noticed just the other week we were behind a big lorry and if we didn't know the sign was there we could easily have missed it near us and theres a speed camera shortly after.

I agree. If you're usually a careful driver and have never been caught speeding before, I'd suggest there is something awry that would mean that the signage isn't clear.

Annoyingly, repeater signs aren't always necessary on 20mph roads. I read an article one year of a lady that got a speeding fine and was arguing against it. Her and her husband had gone out to a friends for dinner. He drove there and she drove home, so she hadn't seen the 20 signs when they arrived. Their friend's house was in the middle of the 20mph zone and she based her speed on the absence of signs and the presence of street lights = 30mph.

Unfortunately I am not sure of an outcome.

I'd definitely go back, take a look and see if you missed the signs and if there was any argument as to why you missed them.

If they were there and you genuinely just didn't notice them, you'll have to take your chance in court unfortunately.

There's a sort of irony with so many people giving 'advice' and hypothesising what a judge will do.
I need to point out the OP is very unlikely to appear in front of a judge. If she goes to court it will be a Magistrate's court so it will be magistrates or the faint possibility of a District Judge if they aren't busy and decided to slum it.

I am giving advice based on what I know of a case . If you are referring to me
so…. Personally I’d be getting a solicitor standing before a judge if need be .

Said person traveling from a 60 to a 30 was caught doing around 45/50 if I remember correctly ., when just entering the 30 . Went to court solicitor told judge what the defendant has said “he was traveling and just hadn’t slowed down quick enough “
The law would have had to have proven the defendant was guilty and meaning to speed “

The op needs her licence to keep her job .
With her clean record. Again I’d get a solicitor and plead my case .

Go to court. No other option to avoid ban otherwise. See if you can get evidence of signs or lack of. 20 is an exceptional low limit after all. Present everything you have as mitigation even if pleading guilty.

No, I wasn’t specifically referring to you but if you care to check my previous posts you will see I have suggested to the OP they use a solicitor and go to court.

OP hasn’t specifically said she needs her licence for her job.

I have no knowledge of the case to which you refer but I repeat, ‘I need to point out the OP is very unlikely to appear in front of a judge. If she goes to court it will be a Magistrate's court so it will be magistrates or the faint possibility of a District Judge if they aren't busy and decided to slum it.’

OP won’t have the option to insist on ‘standing before a judge’ because traffic cases will be dealt with in Magistrates’ Court.

Edited to add
I don’t think prosecutions for speeding have to prove ‘intent’ or meaning to speed; just the fact of speeding.

Whilst o despise speeding, in this circumstance I can totally see how it happened and feel really sorry for you. There are people out there who get away with MULTIPLE 12+ points charges , but I presume it’s dependent on having great legal representation; plus anecdotally I suspect much more sympathy for men?! I think you either need to take costs on the chin, google a solicitor who has expertise in this area and speak to them pronto ; unless you happen to have great and sympathetic relatives with totally clear driving licences who suddenly remember they were driving you to work some of those days??’!