Whites are becoming the minority by 2056Whites- are becoming the minority by 2056

[Thestarsmayalign]

I read this ( not daily mail!) on MN -is this actually a true / statistical prediction?
I can send the link to the thread that stated this .
I have never heard this before . I assume that this is not accurate at all .( also assume applying to uk) .

If this thread took place even just 20 years ago the responses would be very different. The reason being the UK population has already changed and the newer arrivals are on this thread pushing the decrease in whiteness.

Why did you choose to settle in a majority white country if that is the thing you seem to be against. Why not choose a country more aligned to your background?

My post is aimed at those who are against traditional UK values. Not those who assimilate and want the UK traditions to continue.

Are "traditional UK values" linked to "whiteness"? If so, how?

All countries have a history of traditions including the UK. This is what makes somewhere unique. I don't think any country would choose to erase it's history, good or bad.

Why would this be an issue even if it were true?

It wouldn't be an issue for those intent on changing the UK's past present and future.

Those who were quite happy with how things were and wanted that to continue may have an issue with it.

This is in direct reply to @cardibach but also in response to@marcyhermit@samarrange

"Your attitude to Welsh - that you could just move to any part of Wales and people would just deal with your English."

It's getting complicated so I'll respond quote by quote. Are you saying there are parts of Wales where nobody speaks English? What is my attitude, I still don't understand.

"What have we lost of British culture? Given you don’t really value the local languages, it can’t be the decline of Gaelic you are thinking of - so could you give me another example of something we have lost. If there’s ‘so much’ it should be easy."

Where did I say I didn't value local languages?

Like I said in a previous post, there is not one single thing we have lost that you wouldn't see as a win. Mostly the losses are a result of urbanisation and the cultural dominance of television and now digital media. The soft American imperialism that has brought. Young children speaking with American accents, the loss of regional accents. In 2017 Robert MacFarlane published a beautiful book called Lost Words, lamenting the removal of words like Acorn, bluebell, kingfisher, otter and willow from the 2007 Oxford Junior dictionary, because children don't use these words anymore. They were replaced with blog, broadband and voicemail. This symbolises a loss of connection between children and nature. A loss of literacy rates among children, a precipitous decline in educational standards particularly in Scotland, kids can barely read nowdays compared to the standards of literacy even a poor child 60 years ago would have had. They're taught nothing but the bare minimum about history, and essentially just giant violent daycare centres which focus on churning out individualistuc consumers and workers than trying to educate and cultivate virtue. And how can teachers teach when they're expected to parent them aswell - loss in school readiness. We've lost our ability to defend ourselves, We've lost our industry, We've lost our ability to build beautiful buildings or make beautiful art. We've lost our high streets, which are now vape shops and Turkish barbours. People no longer 'first foot' at new year. Everyone did it, now nobody does. The doors are locked. The rates of depression and anxiety are through the roof and continue to grow, many young people can barely function in this new utopia, drug deaths and 'deaths of despair' rising. We've lost reciprocity, mutuality and solidarity. Going to church, Sunday Best, the sabbath, we've lost our shared sense of a common good, our dignity, our manners. 'Multicultural' means no culture, just everything in the blender until you're left with beige, nobody can feel 'other' when culture has been reduced to the thinnest gruel. Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam came out over 25 years ago. And many books and studies have been written about the impact of globalisation, but nobody who spends their lives endlessly coping would read something that disagreed with their cherished world view.

"Edit: I’m confused by you citing differences being bigger before when you have talked about British culture and minimised countries’ cultures. You started by saying what different cultures in Britain, for eg."

I was trying to highlight the extent to which the cultural distinctions in between the nations of and regions within Britain have been flattened over the past hundred years. Almost completely is my point. I don't see what is confusing about that and wonder if maybe you're arguing with a caricature of me rather than what I am actually saying.

But this thread isn’t about « race » it’s about the skin tone of British folks.

British culture wouldn’t suddenly collapse nor disappear if all mumsnetters woke up black tomorrow. But British culture would be at a massive threat of disappearing if ALL British folks were replaced tomorrow by 70 Millions of White French or White Italians or White Americans instead. The skin tone of the citizens of a country does not define their cultural background or heritage.

So worrying about whiteness disappearing isn’t the same as worrying about British culture disappearing or at least shouldn’t be. A black person born and raised in the UK from black parents who were also born and raised in the UK by Britsh parents (black or otherwise) and this for generations is NOT a threat to the British culture at all as those people are equally British as their white counterpart as they do have a British background, culture and likely values, on the other hand millions of white Americans taking over the UK and reproducing while imposing their US mindset and culture, would be a massive threat to the British culture, despite their « Whiteness ».

So if immigration and loss of culture is the fear or threat here, skin tone still is irrelevant, especially in our current era where it’s mainly white men (Trump/Putin) feeling like expending their « reign » and taking over other countries with no wish to preserve anything of the original culture or even of the original people.
Anyone who feels threatened by the skin color of its citizen and feel concerns about a raising british population who might be more brown that white despite a shared cultural background, yet would feel a lot more comfortable with the UK staying white, even if the whiteness stemmed from millions of white immigrants with a completely different cultural background and no wish to integrate, is massively prejudiced.

The fact that people seem to associate skin color with « different to me culturally », while assuming someone white wouldn’t be is also massively problematic because it’s also massively prejudiced. My partner is white, she is also orinally from France (both parents white and French) but she grew up in Germany since age 5 and has never lived in France since, so she is a lot more culturally German than she is French, and I am a lot more culturally French than she is despite me being not white because where you grow up, impacts your cultural background a lot more than your skin tone.

So yes, I don’t feel France being filled with people of my skin tone and my background would erase French culture (since I am French born and raised and I am part of the French culture) while I do feel France being filled or replaced by white Germans or White Americans would indeed completely change France and its culture/background.

So again, skin tone and race aren’t the same thing. I am brown does it mean I am culturally related to Brown folks from the Dominican Republic or the US? And are white Americans or Russian similar to White Brits? If not then why are we implying that it’s the case?

Yes, black people from specific countries like the US have their own sub-culture but an African American will always have more in common with a white American than an African born and raised in Ghana or Angola. In the end they still are Americans.

Similarly someone born and raised in London will have a completely different upbringing than someone born and raised in a small rural town up north. Subculture is not the same as not belonging or not being part of or engaged with the main culture of a country.

MoFadaCromulent · Today 00:22
Poetnojo · Yesterday 21:18
Are you saying it will be good when there are fewer white people in Britan?
Show quote history
Yes

if any white person said this there would be an outcry.
I feel that other countries are allowed to be proud of their heritage , their individual traitt, but somehow its turned into almost a crime here.
When I travel on holiday I am pleased that other people are allowed to celebrate this , including countries that are culturally so different . it would be a loss if white people were displaced but it seems that some would be pleased - as above . Diversity? So lomg as no / less white people.!

worrying about whiteness disappearing isn’t the same as worrying about British culture disappearing or at least shouldn’t be. A black person born and raised in the UK from black parents who were also born and raised in the UK by Britsh parents (black or otherwise) and this for generations is NOT a threat to the British culture at all as those people are equally British as their white counterpart as they do have a British background, culture and likely values

Black British have their own unique culture that is different from white British, so if white Brits disappeared for whatever reason and the island was dominated by Black British descended people, it would be a very very different place.

on the other hand millions of white Americans taking over the UK and reproducing while imposing their US mindset and culture, would be a massive threat to the British culture, despite their « Whiteness »

Well yeah, it’s not really about skin color: that’s just a shorthand. Race itself is a shorthand for various groups of ethnicities. Look more closely at the race, and you will see ethnic breakdowns. Nobody thinks (or should think) Chinese and Japanese are the same; they are very, very different peoples, despite being the same race.

So if immigration and loss of culture is the fear or threat here, skin tone still is irrelevant

It’s relevant because it still is closely related to one’s ethnic and cultural background.

Anyone who feels threatened by the skin color of its citizen and feel concerns about a raising british population who might be more brown that white despite a shared cultural background yet would feel a lot more comfortable with the UK staying white even if the whiteness stemmed from millions of white immigrants with a completely different cultural background and no wish to integrate is massively prejudiced

Nobody argues this. White English is different from a white Ukrainian is different from a white Albanian.

The fact that people seem to associate skin color with « different to me culturally » while assuming someone white wouldn’t be

Assumption is just, a solid guess. It breaks down at the margins. So when I was in Japan, people would speak Japanese to Asian Americans that had zero knowledge of Japanese, and use broken English with me, despite being fluent. They would be shocked when it was me speaking on everyone’s behalf, because the Asian faces literally could not.

It would be the reasonable assumption after all! And totally understandable tbh.

Because where you grow up impacts your cultural background a lot more than your skin tone

It’s really an interplay. Highly individualized, yet at the group level is still meaningful.

So yes I don’t feel France being filled with people of my skin tone and my background would erase French culture (since I am French born and raised and I am part of the French culture) while I do feel France being filled or replaced by white Germans or White Americans would indeed completely change France and its culture/background

I think both instances would. Because Black French presumably have their own culture, wouldn’t you say? It’s not the same as white French.

I am brown does it mean I am culturally related to Brown folks from the Dominican Republic or the US

I don’t know. Have you been to Hispaniola?

And are white Americans or Russian similar to White Brits

White Americans would be more closely related to white British people than Russians: you know this through expat circles. Some of this is linguistic, but not always.

Russians/Eastern Europeans tend to run in their own circles despite similar appearances.

black people from specific countries like the US have their own sub-culture but an African American will always have more in common with a white American than an African born and raised in Ghana or Angola. In the end they still are Americans

In my experience, black Americans tended to want the company of other black Americans while abroad. Like, they would even complain about this. And why shouldn’t they?

I also think that they are getting more used to Africans because of the huge immigration influx over the last 20 years of Africans from Africa as well as Haitians. So their culture is changing as well under this pressure, and it’s not always been smooth btw. The Foundational Black American movement is fascinating, some will say it’s racist. It is what it is.

There we have it - "a hated minority"
The real reason some on this thread don't want to see more non white faces around, they're scared they'll be treated the same way they treat or think of them.
I don't hate minorities, we're all people and I'll treat you as such. Which is why I'm not "bothered"if I'm in the company/vicinity of lots of people who aren't white.

How do you know who's not white or a "newer arrival?"

No one has answered my question. I asked first.

Not sure who your question is aimed at though on this thread if you mean this one?
Why did you choose to settle in a majority white country if that is the thing you seem to be against
You seem to be addressing the thread and aiming it at people who don't agree with you.
It doesn't apply to me, hence my question to you.

I think what cheeses people off - nay, alarms people - is the constant denigration or “what’s British culture?” of things that are inherently of this country or have been traditions for generations. Whilst at the same time applauding other cultures’ celebrations.

Acutally I don’t think there will be this great melting pot. Yes - Black British and white British get together - and I personally know many Sikhs marrying out. But I don’t think Muslim traditionalists are in any hurry to bag themselves a white person and vice versa, so I foresee a situation of sectarianism in n this country.

What are you talking about? I'm white and was born in the UK. I couldn't care less if the proportion of people with different skin colour is changing. Because I'm not a racist and I'm not fixated on skin colour.

How dare you imply that the majority of white British people share your disgusting racist outlook on the world?

I take offense at that.

If you want a beach holiday you don't choose a city break and then try to change it.

You choose something that matches your expectations.

Do you think it is a shame when a culture or population ceases to exist over time? Genuine question.

The rise and fall of cultures is an inevitable part of being human.

Equating skin colour with culture is ridiculous, and also another word that starts with R.

This whole thread is just Great Replacement Theory bollocks.

Exactly, doesn't speak for me either

I agree but I’m interested in whether people also feel this way about indigenous cultures from other places, and Palestinians etc - not just white people?

I don't care if you're offended. Your own views are deeply offensive.

Your analogy makes no sense in any case.

The UK doesn't have 'an individual trait' that's connected to skin colour. We are a country who's citizens are ethnically diverse and this has been the case for decades. Some people who live here have brought with them cultures from their country of origin and as a result we are a multi cultural society. So if you're looking for the 'trait' of the UK, it is diversity. I know you don't like that it's our trait, but it doesn't mean it isn't, and many of us are happy to embrace it.

Do you think it’s wrong that travellers (and many other groups) marry within their own culture to preserve it? Are they racist?

Cultures change and populations intermingle. This has always happened to human societies, everywhere.