Reform wants women barefoot and pregnant

[Sweetiedarling7]

Reform candidate Matt Goodwin wants women to have children early in life and introduce extra taxes as punishment for anyone who chooses not to have children.

Misogyny in plain sight.

How long till they ban abortion too?

Women voting Reform may want to consider if they are turkeys voting for christmas.

That all sounds very lovely, but there are women who have disabled children who will never work. Are they worth less?

I also don't see the link between having babies and thereby not needing to move to renewable energy sources.

It's all a bit childless cat ladies

Maybe people would like to introduce an award, a Mother's cross?

It was an example of politicians not future proofing society. Do you want a population collapse to happen before they deal with it & then like they have with net zero put in damaging policies in place that see us getting poorer and poorer. I wasn’t saying we don’t need to move to renewables but I’m 45 and the climate was a big talking point yet we have solutions that are not going to work & to hit our own target we now import our gas by more expensive and more dirtier means than drilling our own. My energy comment was making an example about not future proofing against problems they know that are coming.

i didn’t say any ones physical life was of less value, i was on about the value you are providing society. The minute you’re claiming more than you’re contributing. As a person you should be looked after in old age, but the people who’s made that a possibility are the ones having children now. So not only are most contributing as well as raising children now they’ve secured the future providers. I think that’s worthy of subsidy to their income. Trust me they’re still massively out of pocket raising a child.

I'm afraid this doesn't make sense economically.

We can at the moment import as many adults as we need to pay tax to cover pensions, we don't need to breed and bring up children for 18 or more years to do that.

There are already too many people on the planet who can't be fed.

The only arguments for a wealthy western country breeding their own are that parents want to have them and, the Reform one, to prevent dilution of the majority culture.

I've had two children, so no need to patronise me about the cost of raising them.

But that’s very different than being a fire fighter in an emergency situation, if you need to get someone out of a burning building immediately you can’t just hang around and wait for a man to turn up to carry the casualty, you have to get them out now, it’s life or death in those circumstances.

You may not have an issue with our culture being diluted, but many do. There is also the issue of what benefits immigrants bring, there is a massive difference between bringing a highly skilled and well educated doctor, nurse or engineer from overseas, who will be a benefit to the country, both in their skill base and their earning power and therefore their tax contributions, against an unskilled person with poor education who is unlikely to ever earn enough to be a net contributor to our economy, and may need state support in the form of housing or universal credit even though they may be working. There is also the issue of taking skilled people from poorer countries and depleting them of the skill set they need and have trained. I recently read some research which showed that the people who are leaving the uk to move overseas are more skilled and wealthy than those who are arriving. That’s not good economic sense either.

But if you have a child/children who will never be able to work then by your own statements you are providing less value to society. I think that is dangerous. Also it suggests the only way to contribute to society is by having children which is not true. With AI I don't think there will be a need for so many workers anyway. Right now we rely on a ponzi system for pensions but all ponzi systems will collapse in a finite system. The cynical side of me suspects this great push for to increase the birth rate is the elites who want a class to exploit.

Measuring someone's worth by their ability or desire to have children is frankly dystopian and insulting. I don't disagree that there are demographic issues that need addressing, but assigning some sort of moral value and superiority to having children is not the way to do that.

its not what I’ve said. I just said you’re providing future value long after you yourself will not be providing. I’m being quite clear that I’m on about the length of contribution. I even said no one’s physical life is more important than anyone else’s.

Nazi Germany had such ideas - "Dilution of the majority culture?" hell, that really is something out of 1930s Germany!

I'm well aware these are NOT Reform official policies but i do find it extremely worrying that the Reform candidate, in such a high profile By Election, is or has put out these ideas.

To me, they make him unsuitable to be an MP but if he still wishes to be one, then its only fair his (far right) views are heavily scrutinised.

The choice for a woman or man to have children should not be subject to Government policies, especially as over the course of 18 or so years, these can change dramatically.

Awful to think I’m of less value because an accident of biology made it impossible for me to have children.

I said that people who have children are providing a benefit. I’m not measuring there actual worth

You said their value is more. Your actual words.

From someone in the same position, I hear you!

Yep...

I didn’t mean it that way. I meant the subsidies are fair

Even if these disgusting ideas are valid, no one knows whether their child will be a benefit to society or not, take this idea a little further, child becomes disabled, due to accident or health issues... what then? get rid of it?

What would this benefit be? tax paid? work done? one could argue a carer is providing more "benefit" than an Accountant?

Neither can function without the other.

Ffs where has that been insuniated.

My comment though I didn’t think needed explaining obviously does. In the context of economy, a person having children are providing potential future tax payers. Birth rates are dropping & that’s a problem you will have to face & live with. So in old age those coming for me please don’t complain if you can neither retire or get the care you need (which is dire now). Saying that incentives are a good idea to encourage people to have children isn’t saying we should adopt a handmaid tale existence for those who wish to not have children. Nor do I think their value is irrelevant. I acknowledge people who have children are part of the solution. I’m sorry if you’re childless due to circumstances out of your control doesn’t mean my point becomes mute.

Dilution of the majority culture is not just the concern of right wing parties such as Reform in the uk, other European countries, particularly Sweden and Denmark, have similar concerns. Welcome people who come here to contribute, economically and culturally, but integration is the key, and this is something Matt Goodwin mentions frequently. Multi cultural is one thing, but some areas of British towns and cities are becoming mono-cultural where people do not integrate or mix. That’s not good for society, doesn’t matter if it’s Albanians or somalis in London, or British retirees in Spain, towns lose their identity which is unsettling for the indigenous population of these places.

I'm using your own reasoning. It is logical that if you think a person provides more value by creating a future tax payer then those that have children who do not become tax payers are not creating more value, in fact you could say by your own reasoning they are producing a net negative. Perhaps then they should pay even more tax? Of course, most compassionate people would agree that would be unfair. The thing is you do not know if your children will be a positive force in the world, if they will be future rapists, murderers or teachers and doctors.

I agree but tbf lesbians are pretty likely to want kids too.

It's not really fair to take all skilled workers away from poorer countries though. Brain drain will stop them improving.