To fuck off out for the day when MIL visits tomorrow

[Myeyeisnotokay]

Instead of playing happy families and pretending everything is ok with me and DH?

Apologies as this is a bit of a vent, and I'm still mad so I may sound unreasonable. We've argued tonight, over a stupid thing but DH is refusing to apologise or even engage in a discussion about it. He feels he is justified.
He ended up effing and blinding at the table because Dd4 and Dd6 only picked the sausages out of their casserole and didn't eat any veg.
It's a battle but they DO eat veg - eg they both love broccoli, cauliflower, peas, etc and will generally eat quite well. Won't say they haven't been particularly picky lately and refusing to even try things, which is irritating. But I'm much of the view that we can't force them to eat stuff and threatening them with no pudding unless they clear their plate is just not a healthy way to encourage them.

I specifically told DH not to make comments when I dished up tea today, because inevitably he picks at them and tells them they need to eat a bit of this with that, and have some veg with that bit etc and it's so draining . We can't just have a nice meal. It's just anxiety inducing for the kids I'm sure. he just couldn't help it and kept on and on at the girls until I snapped at him and he was then swearing (mainly at the situation eg. It's fucking ridiculous).

I've told him he needs to apologise to both me and the kids for the way he spoke. He's given a half arsed "maybe I overreacted a bit" but maintains he was justified because their eating habits need to change and apparently I'm too soft (which fucks me off too, as I am not! They don't get alternatives and I'm happy to let them go hungry if they don't eat, and have made lots of suggestion like meals in the centre of the table etc)

I'm livid with him. I realise this all sounds quite petty but it's just one of a string of stupid arguments lately and most of the time we resolve things, but seemingly he doesn't want to this time. I'm not willing to play happy families until he has a proper conversation with me and actually acknowledges why I'm upset with him.

MIL is visiting tomorrow and not a fucking chance am I going to pretend we're all fine so he comes off like he's the perfect husband and father like usual, so I plan to fuck off out. But I fear I'm also unreasonable, as we don't see her often.

Finally, if anybody has any useful tips on how to get little kids to eat a wider range of veggies, PLEASE throw them at me. I am open to new strategies but I won't force food on them!

Hmmph.

Our youngest can be a tricky eater, a lot of it is sensory or due to feeling dysregulated by the pressure of a family meal.

What has helped with him is completely moving the issue away from him, one of his special interests is the climate crisis and what we can do so we approach it as reducing food waste for the planet. So, "what will you eat of this meal?...... ooooohhh, not keen on the veg cooked this way? Do you want to make a salad on the side?.... lovely, great choices".

Since doing this he has actually been much more open to trying new foods and is comfortable saying what he doesn't like. Also involving him in cooking helps massively.

The way to get them to eat is to not pressure them to eat.

They eat some veg, that’s great. One only
eats raw veg so give her raw veg. Your DH is the problem here, the more anxiety he causes them the less they will eat.

Or get them involved, let them choose.

I have to say, I really do not understand the idea that eating vegetables is a "punishment" and making kids do it is "controlling".

To me, that is an unhealthy attitude to food. If you secretly see vegetables as some kind of difficult challenge that kids have to be slooooowly brought on board with over years, with tricks like mashing them up or special games.... that to me is sending off an unhealthy message.

We explain to our kids how essential vegetables (and other food) are for their bodies to grow, and give them positive choices about which veggies they eat and when. But I just cannot imagine going, ah it's okay for them to eat beige crap for a few years, mealtimes shouldn't be a battle.

It's not a battle, it's parenting! I also don't say it's okay for them to go to bed at midnight because I want calm bedtimes or watch endless cartoons "because I don't want a battle after school".

This is a great way to have positive food conversations and time together learning skills. A few seeds in a small pot on the windowsill filled & watered and checked by children can take the pressure off eating veg, whilst still being involved with veg in a positive & curious way.

Just to be clear, I didn't undermine him. I had already specifically asked him not to comment on dinner as I didn't want an atmosphere. He did the opposite so I'd anything he undermined me and did what he thought was best regardless.

Generally telling the kids they must eat x y z doesn't result in them eating it either way, so it just causes unnecessary stress and atmosphere at the table.

I did was tell him it was not ok to shout and swear like that or speak to / in front of the kids like that.

It is not men who do this ... often mums too!

Thanks for all your responses, after a decent night's sleep everything feels a bit better today for both of us!

I appreciate all the view points.
To clarify re: "puddings", they don't have a pudding after every meal - and often they are offered a yoghurt or fruit, rather than cakes / biscuits / sponge and custard type stuff.
Last night's pudding was a kids yoghurt.

I do take on board the comments about not giving puddings if they don't eat their mains. I actually have tried doing this in the past, and if they're still hungry I have re-offered the rest of their dinner. It's trickier when it's something new or something we kind of know they aren't keen on - I generally say as long as they've tried it, they don't have to eat it if they don't like it. I think I need to be more strict.

DH has apologised for the way he spoke, and we've agreed to find a middle ground re: veg. I sent him a load of Instagram reels from a nutritionist about how pressure at mealtimes makes them less likely to eat. He's watched them and agrees. I think we're gonna go with mainly using veg we know they like, trying more to do self-serve family dinners, and we are yet to discuss puddings!

Tonights dinner is gonna be spag bol with finely chopped carrots and celery in it, which they do always eat!

My DS didn't want to eat veggies. I would 'hide' veg by mashing swede into mashed potato, grating carrots into spag bol, cottage pie - anything really. I would also quietly put a bowl of cherry tomatoes, carrot sticks, a peeled & segmented orange or grapes next to him while he was watching TV or playing on his Play Station & he would pick at them without really noticing what it was that he was eating.

I'd also get him involved in shopping & cooking asking him to pick some fruit & veg when shopping, getting him to help cook also made him feel more invested in the meal & more likely to eat the veg.

As PP have said, nagging a child to eat something isn't going to work. Offer veggies that you know they enjoy, don't praise when they eat it, don't try to persuade them to eat them, just make it all low key.

I think I prefer him to my stupid SIL who tells my grandchildren not to eat their vegetables, making vomiting noises at the table, to put them off.

Specifically asking him to completely shift his mindset to give you an easier life and then snapping at him when he didn't do that.... is undermining him.

Absolutely he shouldn't have swore. But you shouldn't have snapped.

Ye need to get on the sane page and stop patenting against eachother.

OP, batch making a tomato pasta sauce with loads of veg puree'd saved me when my children were small.

I bagged it and froze it, 20 bags at a time.

I fried chicken pierces, fish, sausages, add the sauce and pasta for a fast easier dinner.

Sometimes I just added the sauce to pasta and grated cheese.
They loved it and it wasn't the worst meal.

Stress around food IS the worst.

Grated boiled eggs into pasta, having added some frozen peas into the cooking pasta was a great easy meal that my friend told me about for small children, with a dollop of butter or mayo to mix it up. So easy.

My adult children love all fish today.
I started out with fish fingers when they were tiny.

Fish finger sandwiches is a comfort food to my youngest to this day.

Go easy on yourself, you are doing great.

he just couldn't help it and kept on and on at the girls until I snapped at him and he was then swearing (mainly at the situation eg. It's fucking ridiculous).

He could help it, he just didn't want to.

My mealtimes were like that as a child, I got so anxious that I'd start getting butterflies in my stomach the evening before knowing what was coming. It kicked off a lifelong eating disorder.

Mealtimes are no place for threats. You'll give them the message that dinners are something to be suffered rather than enjoyed.

Even kid's yoghurts can be very sweet. My kids would have deliberately skipped dinner at that age if they thought that they were going to get a sweet yoghurt.

I feel stressed just reading about what meal times must be like in your house. Would MIL be supportive? Would he behave differently in front of her?

Your DH sounds like a bullying twat.

This is not about the vegetables, not really.

This is about DH's anger, control and attitude problems.

Instead of working as a team with you to try to solve a very common childhood issue, he seems to think that the DC not eating veg is an affront to him, and that it's on to try to control them and gets angry when they won't bend to his will.

This is much more damaging, psychologically, than skipping a few veg is physically when they have a balanced diet.

It's also an issue that he's ignoring your request for him to be nicer to the DC.

This won't improve unless he takes a long hard look at himself.

I will add a caveat that I have autistic children, so my advice comes from that experience.

Do not set your children up to fail, casseroles, curries and things all mixed together are very challenging for children. You know what they like to eat, and as long as it is balanced, give them that. My DC needed elements of a meal to be separate until they were 12/13.

If there is a new food or food that is not on the approved list, put it in the middle of the table so that they try it if they are curious.

Always make sure there is enough approved food for them at every meal, they need the calories, you have an obligation to keep them fed.

My DC3 is very thin, he absolutely needs a pudding if he hasn't eaten much main course. Never use food as a punishment, DH is setting them up for a lifetime of food issues. It is abusive behaviour.

Lastly, how much actual caring, shopping, cooking, attending appointments, does DH actually do? If you are doing it all, I would say he can't expect even a 50% say, never mind expecting to lay down the law entirely. Does ge actually love and care for them or does he just want them to comply and present him in good light?

@Myeyeisnotokay great update. Good for you! And great your DH has taken on board your comments. I agree with the no pudding if they don’t make a decent effort. But I always tried to give them things I knew they liked. If it was something new I’d insist they try one bit. If they didn’t like it, fair enough. Mealtime is such an important time, it’s hard sometimes to get a balance. You sound a great mum.

I think this is completely wrong. The kids are not 'playing them off against each other' - that is such a ridiculous and overused trope. Most adults don't have the conscious manipulation skills to pull that off, children certainly don't. They are scared of their dad trying force them to eat something, they need protection from that, which is a far higher priority than presenting a 'United Front'.

How will kids ever speak up about being abused if they see everyone in their lives colluding with abusive behaviour. If you wouldn't do something to an adult, you really shouldn't be doing it to a child.

FWIW, I let things like this slide and I wish I hadn't. I really, really wish I'd taken a stand about DP throwing his weight around with the DC, and not discussing things and working as a team with me sooner.

It was a significant nail in the coffin of our relationship, and I wonder if it's partly the cause of DD's anxiety as a teenager.

This stuff doesn't just get better by itself. DC are - and will continue to be - challenging at times. It's up to the adults to make sure they're not instilling anxiety into their DC or taking out their frustrations on them.

Telling your kids to eat their vegetables is not abuse.

You took a big leap there and landed nowhere near the truth.

Shouting at your kids at the table because you cannot control your own behaviour and forcing them to eat anything is abusive behaviour. If this triggers something in you about your own behaviour, maybe reflect on it.

This. I'd get my MIL on side. She was great.

She snapped first?
They were both wrong.

You are again reaching in your comments telling me to reflect... I said nothing about shouting or being triggered. I merely said that getting kids to eat veg isn't abusive. You've added legs and tails to a comment unnecessarily.