Men who sit next to you on an empty train or bus

[Designless]

Not for a chat or anything, just to sit silently invading your space.

They are expressing a kind of hatred for women who have the temerity to be out and about on their own imo.

Is there a less depressing analysis?

Pretty sure that poster is a man. I’ve seen them before on posts and it’s very, very clear they despise women.

Mostly empty train carriage I had a man clearly walking down the train past loads of empty seats to sit next to me. I was ignoring him but had a feeling I think he was glancing at me occasionally and I looked over at him and he was watching a video of a hand job - close up held over his crotch like he was virtually masturbating.

Not sure what I would have reacted like when I was younger but I told him off loudly. He was making excuses, his friend sent it to him, I shouldn't have been looking at his phone etc. I told him to move. He wouldn't - I think mainly as he didn't want to admit being in the wrong. So I had to squeeze past him to move.

He got off the train a few stops later and as he walked past me he said something about me invading his privacy or whatever. I shouted Fuck off pervert after him which felt satisfying the train was quite a bit fuller by that point.

I reported it to the police online but had no follow up. I didn't realise until after that his actions were illegal or I would have phoned the British transport police at the time.

I wonder if it was to make sure that if a man got on later, he couldn’t then plonk himself down next to her (and then it also protected you from this). It could be she had experienced a man doing that to her before.

I would certainly assume a woman was doing it for a safety reason on the whole.

Men need to learn to leave women alone - i keep thinking about the Suffragettes and their huge hat pins

this one I think can be a bit more benign. Some people use an existing car to line up. The sorting next to you on in an empty carriage or somewhere with lots of free seats is a misogynistic challenge though for sure. What are you gonna do about it? attitude.

I don't think they are oblivious, i think they do because it makes them feel good to intimidate women, makes them feel like the big man.. Creeps

I agree.

My daughter travels by train a lot as she is at university 200 miles away. She's in her second year and has yet to complete a train journey without a man either sitting next to her on an empty/near empty carriage or sitting across the aisle to her facing into the aisle and blocking her exit with his manspreading; talking to her even if she is reading or has headphones on (she wears huge noise cancelling one so the excuse of airpods being hidden by her hair doesn't fly); passing her on the platform and then turning round to follow her to initiate a conversation; following her into a platform coffee shop to ask her for her number (no attempt at conversation even)... the list goes on.

I've told her it still happens to me (at 51) and we share our experiences just so she knows she isn't alone and it isn't her.

I have spoken to men about this over the years and a lot seem to really not get why it's unwelcome or intimidating. The general consensus from men is that they would love it if a woman paid them a comment (especially a sexualised one equivalent to nice arse or great tits) or at least not be bothered by it and thank the woman for the compliment.

Most of them will also concede that it would be less appreciated from a woman twice their age, one they didn't find attractive or where the woman was persistent. But, because it never happens to them, they just don't get it and because they're never at risk of actual harm or feel it, they just don't get it.

Two years ago, my partner and I went into a pub. He went to the loo and came out looking visibly bothered by something. Whilst he'd been using the urinal, a man had walked past him and stroked his arm. He said he just froze because it was such an inappropriate thing for that man to have done and broke all urinal etiquette. It really unnerved him.

He just said that's be how women felt every single time a man behaved in a predatory way around us. Yes. He also said that he was 60 and that was the first time in his life another person had made him feel that way. I told him I was 10 and that it had been a frequent occurance ever since. He got it.

At worst, men are intending to he predatory at best they just don't have a fucking clue and think, I'd like it if someone said/did that to me.

People do tend to gravitate towards other people in empty spaces (like cinema’s for example). Sitting right next to you is weird though. Can’t you stick a bag on the seat or something?

Polly is hilarious, and truly acrobatic in their attempts to demonstrate men are all innocents, maligned by harpies. One of the only situations I’ve understood the misuse of the laugh response that led to its removal!

I'm so sorry that happened to you. Vile man.

Well done. Teenage girls could really do with some lessons in assertiveness as a useful life skill. I’d never have dared do this as a teenager.

I can’t believe people are making excuses for this behaviour. Women need to more aware of dangerous behaviour so they can get away if necessary.

This happened to me as a twelve year old on a bus.
He kept talking to me and I ignored him as I’d been told to do to strange men.
He got off the bus at my stop and followed me up my street.
I knew my house was empty so called in to my mum’s friends house. Her husband came out and ran after him. He fled.
There were other occasions when similar things happened.

The most memorable was on a bus to Gibraltar when the entire bus was empty and a man got on and attempted to sit next to me.
I stood up and asked him if he wanted my seat for a particular reason. He shook his head and still sat down so I went up and told the bus driver. He just shrugged but I still sat near him.
I was so relieved when some women got on.

This is something horrible men do to intimidate/pick you up/put their sneaky hands on you etc etc

To men defending this behaviour I’d say lose the faux naïveté and stop disbelieving, criticising and hurting other women who have been hurt by men.

Before you say it - nobody’s saying it’s all men!!!

This doesn’t happen to me. I take up space and give off enough negative energy that I don’t attract people to sit next to me. 😂

Only today there was a news article about a man who's been arrested again for masturbating on trains and harassing women.

Fart. Long and loud.

Apologies for quoting myself (lost the edit button) I meant to say :

‘To women defending this behaviour’

Not ‘To men defending this behaviour’

Although on looking at this it could apply equally.

It began for me when I was eleven, in my school uniform. A man would walk past miles of empty seats on the bus in order to plonk himself down next to me, and press his thigh against mine. I was small and frightened and I said nothing. Now, I am neither small nor frightened, and as they are sitting down I stand up, say, 'Excuse me,' and take another seat.

I'm so sorry you had to deal with that disgusting creep. I travel on public transport a lot, i keep a can of hairspray in my bag, and a very heavy metal keyring, i hope i would be able to use it in a crisis. As do all my female friends, big key rings the favourite. Men behave so badly in public. I get pushed around, sworn at, shoulder barged and twice actually assaulted. Men see older lone women as easy prey. I attended a self defence class after the last assault, i learned how to discombobulate a man, "clapping" their ears, poking their eyes, knee in the balls etc, i'm not sure i could do it but just practicing it made me feel better, less powerless. So i would recommend that. Doesn't help much older women, women with disabilities, pregnant women etc though

The men are not oblivious. They relish our fear and discomfort.

A few sheets of crumpled loo roll on the seat can keep them away. Or stand up and move as they sit down. Bloody depressing we feel w have to though.

Utterly pointless - men would clamour to get in.

I remember being honked at by men in a white van and being shouted to “get ya tits out”. It was just me and my female friend on the entire street… in our primary school uniform.
I didn’t realise how fucking disgusting that was until many years later.

Men in dresses certainly would.

I always try to sit near other women whenever possible, i would be fine with an actual woman sitting next to me in an empty carriage, safer for both of us usually. Quite different from a man doing this. Even when they aren't being deliberately horrible, so many men on public transport are disgusting, smell bad, pick their noses, scratch or rummage in their crotches, manspread, swear, watch nasty videos, upskirt women /girls, generally totally anti social. I once saw a group of 3 gross looking old blokes watching a young woman, one of them was trying to video down her top, i got my phone out and started to video THEM-they stopped, but it really made me feel sick, so vile.

When my teenage DD started travelling on public transport I chatted to her about this. Said basically men who come and sit next to you when they could sit elsewhere are bad news
Either have unpleasant intent or oblivious to your discomfort. Just get up and move, don't explain, don't apologise. Go and sit near the driver or an older woman.