Taking 3 year old daughter into Men’s Toilets

[dadtobe22]

I just wanted a sense check here as had a horrible experience earlier.

I’m looking after my 3 year old daughter today. Took her to the zoo this morning and headed to a Toby Carvery for lunch. We were having a lovely day.

On arrival I needed to use the toilet so popped upstairs to the gents and I stood at the end urinal and told my 3 year old daughter to stand next to me by the wall.

A bloke walked in and started huffing and puffing and had a massive pop at me asking if I had “no sense” bringing a little girl into the men’s toilets. I explained I was looking after her on my own today, I couldn’t take her into the women’s and I wasn’t prepared to leave her outside.

At this point he started squaring up to me telling me I was wrong. If I’d stood up to him any further he’d have probably gone for me. I was just thinking about keeping myself and my daughter safe at this point.

I walked away and walked back down towards the restaurant. I go to sit down with my daughter and he makes a menacing bee line for me, raising his voice in the whole restaurant telling me I was wrong and how I’d made him feel uncomfortable. He also started making protestations to staff. He seemed really triggered.

Again I just walked away and took a seat in a quiet corner of the bar away from the main restaurant.

The staff were sympathetic in tone but didn’t offer any explicit support (probably because they were a bit scared of this mad bloke which I
don't blame them for. I think they were just trying to keep the peace).

Was I unreasonable to take my 3 year old daughter into the men’s toilets? I’ve been doing this since she was born and have never had a problem or complaint. I would get it if she was 8 and could wait outside by herself but she’s 3?!

It’s definitely made me re think what I do in the future in this situation.

Children under 8 use the toilet or changing room of their accompanying parent's sex.

I know that . I was responding to the comment about people who go out with a carer of the opposite sex.
He does an awful lot for my adult disabled daughter.

So where was the OPs 3 year old daughter supposed to go while he used the bathroom?

No it's not that, many men piss in the toilet in the cubicles...I don't know why despite being male myself.

Plus many don't appear to be cleaned properly (not to my standards anyway) and I really don't like walking on the floor in there. God knows how many places say they have been inspected hourly when clearly they have not

They are bloody grim sometimes even in some "swanky" places

You're judgement means nothing to me, I've seen what makes you cheer

Occasionally, I have had men, who are on their own with a small daughter, ask me if I could keep an eye on her either so that she can use the ladies’ toilets or to wait outside the men’s toilets so that her father can use the toilet. Would this be a possibility in the future - an middle aged lady?

What? England doing well at football? DD being amazing at table tennis? DS and his musical skill?

You've seen what makes me cheer? Have you got me mixed up with someone else?

Why on earth wouldn’t you take her into a cubicle? The other guy was right. He shouldn’t have to worry about exposing himself to a 3 year old. You should me MORE worried about men exposing their junk to a three year old. I would really question my husbands judgement if he did this.

You should have used the disabled toilet if possible. And if not, taken her into a cubicle with you in the men’s. On the way in and out make sure she can’t see strange men’s nobs.

If there’s no family friendly options I would take her into the ladies.
I’d open the outer door and say that you have a young girl with you.
Then just use a cubicle as usual.
There’s a door on every cubicle. People can see the child. No big deal.

I expect the staff were afraid of the nutcase you encountered.

Please stop encouraging men to come into the ladies. It’s never necessary.

YWNBU to take your little girl into the men's loos, as you needed to go. But:
YWBU to stand her next to the urinals, it's massively inappropriate.
I can see why that guy was cross but he shouldn't have gone at you the way he did.
However, I'd take it as a lesson and use the cubicle next time.

Of course it would be better if there were suitable facilities. A family/baby changing room, but if there isn’t?

Of course, a man without a little girl should not go into the women’s loos.
But with the child, is that still alarming?

Perhaps you could have approached a woman to ask if she could watch your child for a few minutes while you were in the men’s . Just outside and you could talk to her perhaps. Women do understand the dilemmas involved. I have a memory of a parental friend taking me into the the gents as a small child and I was disturbed by the experience.

OK, but surely that still holds that most (not all) use of the cubicles in the men's will be for a poo - in places that see a steady trickle of users, rather than somewhere like a football ground or theatre where masses of people all want to go at the interval?!

Locked disabled toilets are for people with disabilities. If you don't have a radar key, you need to go get one from staff. A locked disabled toilet, even if you do have a radar key, might have someone in it.

Being a father isn't a disability. Being 3 years old isn't a disability. Having an urgent need to use a disabled toilet, with a radar key, and waiting for a it to be free is difficult enough when other disabled people are using the facilities.

Do you tell men pretending to be women to use the disabled toilet too instead of the men's?

Lots of creepy men have children. And no man should be in the women's.

Apart the fact @dadtobe22 already stated the accessible toilet had a radar lock, the disabled facilities are for disabled people.

Just like women who say transwomen can use the women's toilets because they are ok with it, disabled people's right to say no to non disabled parents with non disabled children isn't yours to give away.

Ironically, if she's in a cubicle whilst her dad has a wee, she'll almost certainly see a willy; whereas if she's standing to the side whilst her dad (and maybe other men) use the urinals, she'll only see people's (clothed) backs and backs of their legs.

Can I just add, I know there a pile on about suggesting you can or cannot use a disabled toilets. MOST disabled toilets also double up as a baby change, in my experience. I’m talking the majority of places i go I notice it.

I have two very LO and use the disabled / baby change for the baby changing unit and simply for the space. The two go hand in hand. If you needed a key, then ask. Doesn’t usually take long. I would prefer that to a dirty toilet with rude men and knobs swinging round.

It's a very long-established and common-sense situation that a parent can take their little child in to a toilet with them based on their own (the parent's) sex, when either of them needs the toilet. It's generally considered very unsafe not to supervise and stay with small children at all times when out and about in public.

Yes, they could put signs on all doors saying "Male toilets: for the use of men, boys and little girls accompanied by their father/other adult male carer, but no older females who don't need to be accompanied" - and the equivalent for the women's toilets - but it's generally assumed that this is obvious to virtually all people, so no need to bother spelling out the obvious.

I would prefer that to a dirty toilet with rude men and knobs swinging round.

They're standing facing a wall and discreetly having a wee - with only their backs visible - before doing up their flies, then stepping away from the urinal and (we very much hope) walking to the sinks to wash their hands before leaving.

Do you really think that men prance around and pirouette in public toilets as they wee - doing big willy windmills - as though they're performing with the Royal Ballet?!

I would not want my daughter going inside the men’s toilets full stop, cubicle or not. As someone entitled to use the disabled toilets I wouldn’t mind at all if a Dad in this situation used them. In fact this has prompted me to have this conversation with my DH about doing so should this situation arise when he’s out alone with our DD.

How exactly is this going to harm a three year old?

If you had asked a female with children please could they watch your DD whilst you used the toilet I'm sure most would agree. I've stood next to a toddler outside a toilet before so her Dad could use the loo. As your DD is getting older you could have used the cubicle.