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To be confused by 'high earners' complaining about taxes?

981 replies

tutuland · 10/02/2026 18:25

So high earners pay lots of tax. The top 20% pay for 70% or whatever the numbers are.

But (beyond printing more money) isn't the money there high income people make just coming from the paying public? No matter who you work for, your company's profit is just an accumulation of normal people paying for things.

So ultimately, isn't it all our money anyway? Just beacuse the game is rigged and you get paid 400K for management whatever, it doesn't mean you're more deserving of that money than anyone.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Pithykestralfish · 14/02/2026 12:49

andalon · 14/02/2026 10:19

No, I wasn't.

Interesting, though, to think the moral/fairness case for taxation/equality of outcome could be so outré as to be thought sarcastic. Interesting and sad.

As another poster said earlier, social engineering for equality of outcome is the equivalent of lobotomising the top 10% of children by IQ. People just assume it’s a joke when suggested.

andalon · 14/02/2026 12:57

Pithykestralfish · 14/02/2026 12:49

As another poster said earlier, social engineering for equality of outcome is the equivalent of lobotomising the top 10% of children by IQ. People just assume it’s a joke when suggested.

"... social engineering for equality of outcome is the equivalent of lobotomising the top 10% of children by IQ."

Erh, no it's not.

You might argue, at a pinch, that it'd be equivalent to increasing educational opportunity for the bottom 90%. Even then, I'm not sure the similarity is sufficient to ground the conclusion.

Pithykestralfish · 14/02/2026 13:15

andalon · 14/02/2026 12:57

"... social engineering for equality of outcome is the equivalent of lobotomising the top 10% of children by IQ."

Erh, no it's not.

You might argue, at a pinch, that it'd be equivalent to increasing educational opportunity for the bottom 90%. Even then, I'm not sure the similarity is sufficient to ground the conclusion.

Are you being sarcastic?
Can you give an example of an equality of outcome policy that isn’t simply penalising success ?
The argument on communism is completely over, it has never worked anywhere it has been attempted and has only ever resulted in economic failure and human misery.

persephonia · 14/02/2026 13:46

MissConductUS · 10/02/2026 18:36

Normal people paying for things get something in return for their money. It’s not a donation, it’s an exchange they freely entered into.

If a shop owner becomes very successful, it’s because they put their time and capital at risk and worked hard to make the shop successful. The fact that you bought something there doesn’t entitle you to part of the profits.

It’s concerning that this has to be explained to people. Have they stopped teaching economics in the UK?

It's not just that though

If the shop owners shop is successful part of that success comes from

  • the roads being well maintained enough such that deliveries of products to his shop can get there in a timely fashion
  • the street his shop is situated in being a pleasant place for people to visit..if the council does an urban regeneration scheme where they put up hanging baskets, make sure the pavement isn't full of potholes, open a library etc that benefits businesses
  • large scale infrastructure such as train stations, bus stations, bus routes etc
  • police and criminal justice. Not just bobbies on the beat but the whole infrastructure. If people know they won't be robbed leaving the house they are more likely to go to the shop, likewise the shop owner feels safe he won't be robbed
  • corruption and a general rule of law. The shop owner can order from his suppliers and they will take his order knowing contracts are respected because that's the general expectation. Likewise the shop owner knows he won't lost his inventory because the son of a politician walks in and likes the look of it

I could go on and on. Shopkeepers add value. They also benefit from public spending. To a much greater extent so do millionaires and billionaires..even if you have private health care all the way, if you are a multi millionaire or billionaire you have benefitted from public spending to a much greater extent than someone on benefits.

No man is an island. But the richer people get the more they want to kid themselves they are.

persephonia · 14/02/2026 13:49

Pithykestralfish · 14/02/2026 13:15

Are you being sarcastic?
Can you give an example of an equality of outcome policy that isn’t simply penalising success ?
The argument on communism is completely over, it has never worked anywhere it has been attempted and has only ever resulted in economic failure and human misery.

Edited

The argument on unfettered capitalism was over in 2008. Since then we've kept the zombie ghost of neoliberalism/Reaganism/Thatcherism artificially reanimated by feeding it the dreams of the young. It's not sustainable

Marxist communism might not be the solution but pretending trickle down works isn't either.

Pithykestralfish · 14/02/2026 13:55

persephonia · 14/02/2026 13:49

The argument on unfettered capitalism was over in 2008. Since then we've kept the zombie ghost of neoliberalism/Reaganism/Thatcherism artificially reanimated by feeding it the dreams of the young. It's not sustainable

Marxist communism might not be the solution but pretending trickle down works isn't either.

You’ve answered your own question why people think you’re joking when you suggest equality of outcome policies.

andalon · 14/02/2026 14:06

Pithykestralfish · 14/02/2026 13:15

Are you being sarcastic?
Can you give an example of an equality of outcome policy that isn’t simply penalising success ?
The argument on communism is completely over, it has never worked anywhere it has been attempted and has only ever resulted in economic failure and human misery.

Edited

" ... an example of an equality of outcome policy that isn’t simply penalising success ?"

Graduated income tax? NHS? Minimum Wage? UBI?

--You might be interested in the Joseph Rowntree Foundation paper on UBI: www.jrf.org.uk/social-security/is-universal-basic-income-a-good-idea

(I think talk of communism and its historical failings is now a bit of a dead letter, particularly in the light of much of Marx's analysis and predictions. But that's a different subject; I don't want to get into it here. Have the last word on this if you like.)

It's unfair I'm relatively wealthy just because - as it seems - I was lucky enough to have been born clever (although admittedly lazy). Dealing with such unfairness would seem to entail some sort of move towards equality of outcome. Wouldn't it?

MissConductUS · 14/02/2026 14:20

persephonia · 14/02/2026 13:46

It's not just that though

If the shop owners shop is successful part of that success comes from

  • the roads being well maintained enough such that deliveries of products to his shop can get there in a timely fashion
  • the street his shop is situated in being a pleasant place for people to visit..if the council does an urban regeneration scheme where they put up hanging baskets, make sure the pavement isn't full of potholes, open a library etc that benefits businesses
  • large scale infrastructure such as train stations, bus stations, bus routes etc
  • police and criminal justice. Not just bobbies on the beat but the whole infrastructure. If people know they won't be robbed leaving the house they are more likely to go to the shop, likewise the shop owner feels safe he won't be robbed
  • corruption and a general rule of law. The shop owner can order from his suppliers and they will take his order knowing contracts are respected because that's the general expectation. Likewise the shop owner knows he won't lost his inventory because the son of a politician walks in and likes the look of it

I could go on and on. Shopkeepers add value. They also benefit from public spending. To a much greater extent so do millionaires and billionaires..even if you have private health care all the way, if you are a multi millionaire or billionaire you have benefitted from public spending to a much greater extent than someone on benefits.

No man is an island. But the richer people get the more they want to kid themselves they are.

What this misses is that the shop owner's risk-taking and effort made the difference between success and failure. If successful, the benefits go back out to society in terms of employment, demand for goods to sell and taxes paid to the government. It also ignores the regulatory burden the state places on the business.

It's the government's fundamental job to maintain basic infrastructure and public safety.

GeneralPeter · 14/02/2026 14:24

persephonia · 14/02/2026 13:49

The argument on unfettered capitalism was over in 2008. Since then we've kept the zombie ghost of neoliberalism/Reaganism/Thatcherism artificially reanimated by feeding it the dreams of the young. It's not sustainable

Marxist communism might not be the solution but pretending trickle down works isn't either.

I don’t think that analyses works.

Firstly, capitalism wasn’t ’unfettered’ pre-2008. Secondly, the more-fettered economies of Europe suffered far worse youth employment than the UK.

The less-fettered economy of the US recovered far faster than either the UK or Europe and 2008 is a distant memory there.

Why was southern Europe hit so hard particularly? Becuase of political fetters placed on the economy by Euro membership and the fact that markets couldn’t flexibly respond, for the same reason.

And why did unemployment hit the young so brutally? Becuase strong labour protections favoured those with jobs and ‘rank’ over those without.

In the UK, the two main burdens on the young I see now are lack of good jobs (a growth problem), and housing costs (a consequence of fetters on building).

Arraminta · 14/02/2026 14:32

How, how, how can someone have spent a minimum of 13 years in formal education and have no idea of how economics actually work? Then again probably not that surprising that someone who doesn't understand is also not paying higher rate tax.

But I digress. DH is in the top 2% of tax payers and it infuriates him that what he 'spends' in tax barely 'buys' him anything in public services anymore.

nearlylovemyusername · 14/02/2026 14:53

andalon · 14/02/2026 12:57

"... social engineering for equality of outcome is the equivalent of lobotomising the top 10% of children by IQ."

Erh, no it's not.

You might argue, at a pinch, that it'd be equivalent to increasing educational opportunity for the bottom 90%. Even then, I'm not sure the similarity is sufficient to ground the conclusion.

well, it is. How do you see this working? take 10% top IQ kids, place them in zoo and educate the bottom 90% heavily?

Or would these annoying high IQs be allowed at least at the further benches in the same classes as 90%? but if yes, then they'd still end up at the top?

Gosh, some people really are at the bottom 10% of IQ

persephonia · 14/02/2026 14:58

GeneralPeter · 14/02/2026 14:24

I don’t think that analyses works.

Firstly, capitalism wasn’t ’unfettered’ pre-2008. Secondly, the more-fettered economies of Europe suffered far worse youth employment than the UK.

The less-fettered economy of the US recovered far faster than either the UK or Europe and 2008 is a distant memory there.

Why was southern Europe hit so hard particularly? Becuase of political fetters placed on the economy by Euro membership and the fact that markets couldn’t flexibly respond, for the same reason.

And why did unemployment hit the young so brutally? Becuase strong labour protections favoured those with jobs and ‘rank’ over those without.

In the UK, the two main burdens on the young I see now are lack of good jobs (a growth problem), and housing costs (a consequence of fetters on building).

Well no,
The less-fettered economy of the US recovered far faster than either the UK or Europe and 2008 is a distant memory there.
If it had recovered properly you wouldn't have seen the rise of support for radical change and the election of Trump. If it's a distant memory it's because it was in the interests of the rich to make it so, so they could keep making money. Here's a much longer (though still brief) analysis with more detail:

The economy crashed in 2008 because of a housing/mortgage market in the US that was allowed to effectively self regulate since the 90s. This allowed lending to boom which gave the temporary illusion of growth but also created a huge unsustainable bubble. It wasnt just the out of control lending on mortgages. It was also the levels of interdependence the globally situated banks had on each other which meant that when the tide went out it turned out all had been swimming naked. The bankers had a strong incentive to create this bubble because the larger it grew the higher the profits and the higher the individual bonuses.

When everything crashed it turned out that even countries who hadn't participated in the housing bubble were affected because their banks own lending had left everyone exposed. So countries had to borrow billions and billions to bail out the banks because, even though the banks had caused the problem, not to do so would have crashed the economy completely. Privatise the profits, socialise the costs.

When it was suggested there should be some future limits on banks (including on bankers bonuses) or rules to restrain them going forward this was severely resisted by those same banks. Also some of the individuals involved in this were part of an international cabal of paedophiles who were trading insider information with government ministers. When wealth reaches a certain point it actively degrades the advantages capitalism has over other systems.

Some economies recovered faster than others. The US recovered faster at the expense of a complete stagnation of post WW2 improvements in living standards of young people (literally everything stopped improving and started going backwards after 2008. There are stats for this). In the UK the new conservative government proposed we pay back the money spent on bailing out the banks with Austerity. Services were cut, benefits were cut, spending on programmes for young people were cut and we are still feeling the effects.pf that today. Latency.

In the Eurozone there was a huge disagreement between countries like Greece and Germany. Pre-existing problems were exposed. The EU also proposed an EU wide project to greater regulate the banks to stop that ever happening again. This would.also have affected banks future profits. Some of the figures most opposed to this went on to bankroll the UKs Brexit campaign which by a remarkable coincidence meant bank regulation never happened in the UK.

Now, in 2025 we are in a situation in the UK where public services are absolutely groaning after years of underfunding. Even if I paid twice the tax I do now, I wouldn't see the improvement straight away because of the latency in the system. So people on reasonably good salaries who aren't super wealthy (not millionaires) find themselves bearing a tax burden that feels too high. Meanwhile young people and those on lower incomes saw worst prospects for improving there own lots between 2008 and 2020 than at any point since WW2. But some people did make lots of money. And that money has been spent on huge media campaigns pointing the finger at immigrants, Muslims, feminism. America might have "recovered faster" but clearly people there weren't thrilled either. That's why you saw so many political shocks over the last 10 years (happy people wouldn't have voted for Trump)

But hey, bankers and the super rich need that money to travel to islands to abuse children on. So maybe I'm being unfair...

Pithykestralfish · 14/02/2026 15:16

nearlylovemyusername · 14/02/2026 14:53

well, it is. How do you see this working? take 10% top IQ kids, place them in zoo and educate the bottom 90% heavily?

Or would these annoying high IQs be allowed at least at the further benches in the same classes as 90%? but if yes, then they'd still end up at the top?

Gosh, some people really are at the bottom 10% of IQ

You won’t get anywhere, It’s like a religion to some people. I always liked the idea of Marxists having their own equality of outcome pilots and surgeons whilst the rest of us make do with outcome inequality.

nearlylovemyusername · 14/02/2026 15:34

Pithykestralfish · 14/02/2026 15:16

You won’t get anywhere, It’s like a religion to some people. I always liked the idea of Marxists having their own equality of outcome pilots and surgeons whilst the rest of us make do with outcome inequality.

I know, right?

The best equality of outcomes is now in North Korea. Can we ship them there?

ETA: I keep on saying that we need to have some basic IQ test before allowing people to vote.

MissConductUS · 14/02/2026 15:52

That's why you saw so many political shocks over the last 10 years (happy people wouldn't have voted for Trump)

People voted for Trump because the Biden administration had so many policy failures that Kamala promised to double down on.

www.aei.org/op-eds/five-reasons-harris-lost/

MissConductUS · 14/02/2026 16:04

When it was suggested there should be some future limits on banks (including on bankers bonuses) or rules to restrain them going forward this was severely resisted by those same banks.

There was significant regulatory reform in the US after the crisis.

https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/great-recession-and-its-aftermath

Effects on Financial Regulation

When the financial market turmoil had subsided, attention naturally turned to reforms to the financial sector and its supervision and regulation, motivated by a desire to avoid similar events in the future. A number of measures have been proposed or put in place to reduce the risk of financial distress. For traditional banks, there are significant increases in the amount of required capital overall, with larger increases for so-called "systemically important" institutions (Bank for International Settlements 2011a; 2011b). Liquidity standards will for the first time formally limit the amount of banks' maturity transformation (Bank for International Settlements 2013). Regular stress testing will help both banks and regulators understand risks and will force banks to use earnings to build capital instead of paying dividends as conditions deteriorate (Board of Governors 2011).

The Dodd-Frank Act of 2010 also created new provisions for the treatment of large financial institutions. For example, the Financial Stability Oversight Council has the authority to designate nontraditional credit intermediaries "Systemically Important Financial Institutions" (SIFIs), which subjects them to the oversight of the Federal Reserve. The act also created the Orderly Liquidation Authority (OLA), which allows the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation to wind down certain institutions when the firm's failure is expected to pose a great risk to the financial system. Another provision of the act requires large financial institutions to create "living wills," which are detailed plans laying out how the institution could be resolved under US bankruptcy code without jeopardizing the rest of the financial system or requiring government support.

The Great Recession and Its Aftermath

The 2007-09 economic crisis was deep and protracted enough to become known as "the Great Recession" and was followed by what was, by some measures, a long but unusually slow recovery.

https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/great-recession-and-its-aftermath

NorthXNorthWest · 14/02/2026 16:32

I despair for this country.

persephonia · 14/02/2026 17:51

MissConductUS · 14/02/2026 16:04

When it was suggested there should be some future limits on banks (including on bankers bonuses) or rules to restrain them going forward this was severely resisted by those same banks.

There was significant regulatory reform in the US after the crisis.

https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/great-recession-and-its-aftermath

Effects on Financial Regulation

When the financial market turmoil had subsided, attention naturally turned to reforms to the financial sector and its supervision and regulation, motivated by a desire to avoid similar events in the future. A number of measures have been proposed or put in place to reduce the risk of financial distress. For traditional banks, there are significant increases in the amount of required capital overall, with larger increases for so-called "systemically important" institutions (Bank for International Settlements 2011a; 2011b). Liquidity standards will for the first time formally limit the amount of banks' maturity transformation (Bank for International Settlements 2013). Regular stress testing will help both banks and regulators understand risks and will force banks to use earnings to build capital instead of paying dividends as conditions deteriorate (Board of Governors 2011).

The Dodd-Frank Act of 2010 also created new provisions for the treatment of large financial institutions. For example, the Financial Stability Oversight Council has the authority to designate nontraditional credit intermediaries "Systemically Important Financial Institutions" (SIFIs), which subjects them to the oversight of the Federal Reserve. The act also created the Orderly Liquidation Authority (OLA), which allows the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation to wind down certain institutions when the firm's failure is expected to pose a great risk to the financial system. Another provision of the act requires large financial institutions to create "living wills," which are detailed plans laying out how the institution could be resolved under US bankruptcy code without jeopardizing the rest of the financial system or requiring government support.

Some regulation.did happen after 2008. This is the regulation that Trump is currently in the process of rolling back https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/31/trump-administration-prepares-to-ease-big-bank-rules-00377347

Other regulation was proposed and then never happened (limits on bankers bonuses, Gordon Browns proposals to give people the right to a bank account). We now know for a fact that there was a lot of lobbying, and threats made by the banks to try to influence those decisions. We also now know inside information was being traded between politicians and finance guys as the 2008 crisis and the bailout were happening, enabling the finance guys to continue to make money at the expense of the public. We know this because Jeffrey Epstein kept the emails.

Besides which, the damage to the economy and the debt had already happened by 2008, because of the lack of regulations. Giving a list of regulations that were brought in after this cataclysmic event (regulations that are now being repealed) only proves my point.

But yeah, sure, it's people on benefits and muslims that are the reason my taxes are high but public service are bad.🙄

Animatic · 14/02/2026 18:34

This was one of the most uneducated takes on this topic I have ever seen.
Newsflash- it's not "all your money anyways".

Pithykestralfish · 14/02/2026 18:44

persephonia · 14/02/2026 17:51

Some regulation.did happen after 2008. This is the regulation that Trump is currently in the process of rolling back https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/31/trump-administration-prepares-to-ease-big-bank-rules-00377347

Other regulation was proposed and then never happened (limits on bankers bonuses, Gordon Browns proposals to give people the right to a bank account). We now know for a fact that there was a lot of lobbying, and threats made by the banks to try to influence those decisions. We also now know inside information was being traded between politicians and finance guys as the 2008 crisis and the bailout were happening, enabling the finance guys to continue to make money at the expense of the public. We know this because Jeffrey Epstein kept the emails.

Besides which, the damage to the economy and the debt had already happened by 2008, because of the lack of regulations. Giving a list of regulations that were brought in after this cataclysmic event (regulations that are now being repealed) only proves my point.

But yeah, sure, it's people on benefits and muslims that are the reason my taxes are high but public service are bad.🙄

Is there a particular post on this thread claiming Muslims are the reason for high taxes that you’re arguing against ? or is that just a straight up straw man to deflect from the £60 billion tax raises Labour has implemented in less than 2 years to splurge on benefits ?

Marxism 101, if all else fails then imply racism. I’m afraid that just won’t work anymore, surely you can present your side of the argument using facts rather than resorting to things like this.

MissConductUS · 14/02/2026 18:47

persephonia · 14/02/2026 17:51

Some regulation.did happen after 2008. This is the regulation that Trump is currently in the process of rolling back https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/31/trump-administration-prepares-to-ease-big-bank-rules-00377347

Other regulation was proposed and then never happened (limits on bankers bonuses, Gordon Browns proposals to give people the right to a bank account). We now know for a fact that there was a lot of lobbying, and threats made by the banks to try to influence those decisions. We also now know inside information was being traded between politicians and finance guys as the 2008 crisis and the bailout were happening, enabling the finance guys to continue to make money at the expense of the public. We know this because Jeffrey Epstein kept the emails.

Besides which, the damage to the economy and the debt had already happened by 2008, because of the lack of regulations. Giving a list of regulations that were brought in after this cataclysmic event (regulations that are now being repealed) only proves my point.

But yeah, sure, it's people on benefits and muslims that are the reason my taxes are high but public service are bad.🙄

What do Brits on benefits and religious minorities have to do with American banking regulations?

persephonia · 14/02/2026 18:50

Pithykestralfish · 14/02/2026 18:44

Is there a particular post on this thread claiming Muslims are the reason for high taxes that you’re arguing against ? or is that just a straight up straw man to deflect from the £60 billion tax raises Labour has implemented in less than 2 years to splurge on benefits ?

Marxism 101, if all else fails then imply racism. I’m afraid that just won’t work anymore, surely you can present your side of the argument using facts rather than resorting to things like this.

Love that you ignored the point about benefit claimants because you know they have already been blamed so many times on this thread it's harder to deny.

Always the usual scapegoats are

  • benefits claimants
  • immigrants
  • Muslims/Jews
  • women

You can see posters on here who will vociferously deny any link between the current economic issues and the banking crisis but will post on thread after thread complaining that the groups listed above are draining this country dry or are the reason that we pay high tax for little return. And there's been plenty of that on this thread to if you read the whole thing.

Not a Marxist by the way. Not every criticism of the current system has to come from Marxists silly goose.

Saladmess · 14/02/2026 18:55

Just read all your replies. You sound like a 15 year old from a rich family who just read their first book on karl marx. Get off your high horse. Yes I’m a high earner and I pay a shitload of tax. Too much for the terrible quality of services in the UK. Have I been lucky to end up a high earner? Yes I am, Im a white, not bad looking woman born in first world country. But I still complain because I also work my fucking ass off 50-60 hours a week and have sacrificed having a family and living close to my family for a career, so yes I think I deserve my wage. What point are you trying to make.. if you feel this strongly, join your local political party.

Pithykestralfish · 14/02/2026 19:01

persephonia · 14/02/2026 18:50

Love that you ignored the point about benefit claimants because you know they have already been blamed so many times on this thread it's harder to deny.

Always the usual scapegoats are

  • benefits claimants
  • immigrants
  • Muslims/Jews
  • women

You can see posters on here who will vociferously deny any link between the current economic issues and the banking crisis but will post on thread after thread complaining that the groups listed above are draining this country dry or are the reason that we pay high tax for little return. And there's been plenty of that on this thread to if you read the whole thing.

Not a Marxist by the way. Not every criticism of the current system has to come from Marxists silly goose.

Yes benefit claimants have been mentioned, the whole thread is benefit claimants saying benefit payers shouldn’t moan about it.

So back to my question, it wasn’t a reply to a particular post or anything to do with this thread? it was just something you added in implying anyone who disagrees with you may hold racist views? hmmm It’s not really going to work, I think once you resort to that you are admitting your argument has no merit.

Its good you’re not a Marxist, you shouldn’t adopt their divisive cheap identity politic methods.

ThisWittySquid · 14/02/2026 19:02

Benefits bill is too high and spending on them is out of control. Too many people choosing not to work and claiming what they are "entitled to". I don't think anyone has a moral claim on someone else's income and hard work.

I know someone claiming all sorts because she needs to "feed her kids". Doesn't even buy groceries and cook food, just orders takeaway online everyday for every meal and pays for it to be delivered. All funded by the taxpayer.