We don't want the government to lurch to the left

[Bargepole45]

I am absolutely astounded that Labour think it's democratic to decide that they can lurch to the left despite being elected with a very clear promise to not tax and spend. I believe this is absolutely not what the general public want and I am really worried that the economy isn't going to survive this and we will end up with an IMF bailout that will lead to very painful spending cuts for our most vulnerable.

Please vote:
YABU :I want Labour to lurch to the left in order to increase taxation and spending
YANBU: I don't want Labour to lurch to the left and would be against further tax and spending rises

I would get rid of the minimum wage. We are already subsidise people to a certain level. It would be far better to be getting business to pick up more of that bill and get services delivered than to just keep the same bill and have people sitting on their arses. There are lots of roles that just don't exist because the economic value is less than the minimum wage. You would say those businesses are unviable and the worker don't deserve those jobs and are better unemployed. I would say that those workers are being doing a job than wasting their lives on their sofa.

Everyone working funded by the state - how much more left wing can you get.

I agree
it is a travesty and the increasing numbers leaving really needs to be addressed.
however

whilst I am not an ‘older voter’ I don’t blame any demographic. That’s far too simplistic and simply an easy blame game
The bullies and the selfish, the takers and the givers, the hardworking and work shy …which way do they vote. It’s not an age thing it’s an attitude thing
Perhaps if everyone jumped back to life in the 40s,50s,60s they might be more aware and point the finger less.

You subscribe to the majority of funds reaching the children?

No in this case they have MH issues due to lack of work. Read the threads. Of course it’s tough on a young person to apply to a huge amount of jobs and get nowhere.

Read the ‘brutal job market’ thread and the engineering ones.

I disagree. You never know when you will need what the welfare state provides. DH and I have decent salaries and I would have said were 'net contributors' - up until the point where our daughter became seriously ill. The amount the NHS spent on her over 3 years was in the 100s of 1000s (making us net beneficiaries now I guess). I would much rather have the peace of mind that publicly funded healthcare is there. My ex-flatmate was American and her (middle class, insured) father was crucified by health care costs. (Happily DD is now recovered and at uni - hopefully she will get a job that helps her pay some back, but I'm more than happy to pay taxes so other sick kids are looked after).

Irate😂

Just enjoying winding you up really. Much more fun than getting irate.

Feeling pretty chilled really. Just hate right wing. And people who tell me what to do. Like ‘step away’

Who the fuck do you think you are? Step away😂

Perhaps all businesses that are finding it difficult should just close down? I mean if they're struggling to fund a rocketing minimum wage and increasing tax burden.... 30% of small businesses have reported themselves to be struggling and needing to downsize and potentially close. If they close then that's at least 5 million people out of work not to mention the knock on effect these closures would have on other businesses and staff they employ. Have you any idea what they would do to our economy?

whilst I am not an ‘older voter’ I don’t blame any demographic. That’s far too simplistic and simply an easy blame gameThe bullies and the selfish, the takers and the givers, the hardworking and work shy …which way do they vote. It’s not an age thing it’s an attitude thing

But governments and the electorate have ignored the young for years and the impact is playing out now. Look at wage stagnation, housing costs vs salaries, the job market, cost of childcare, education funding etc.

increasing numbers of educated people are leaving partly down to taxes
so They won’t be there for you when you are old if people don’t appreciate we need to support them now.

Do you have any credentials in Economics?

I can't afford to pay a decent wage!!!" is as straightforward an indicator as there is that your business isn't viable.

That business could've afforded market rate wages before NI and business rates hikes. What do you believe a decent wage is? the rate is define by eternal laws of supply and demand. One of the reasons for our inflation, esp in services, is rising wages. But for SME to pay higher wages on the top of higher costs and taxes the only way is to increase prices. But their customers are hit by increased taxes as well, so can't pay more, despite rising wages.

The Labour Party is left wing. There’s no lurch. A return to fundamental values perhaps. But no lurch.

You miss my point I’m afraid.

I wanted the PP to know that circa 25% doesn’t reach NHS operations/patients, as it pays for pension liabilities.

Ok... You really aren't winding me up, it's just all git a bit strange. I'm not the one swearing, getting angry and making frankly strange assertions. Crack on if it makes you happy.

Come now, Starmer is trying to placate the back benches, and head off a later leadership challenge from Rayner - it’s the price he must pay to remain PM.

It wont save him, of course.

@DrPrunesqualer I’m not sure what is getting lost in translation. Pretty much all my posts have mentioned how we have screwed over the young 😆

Labour pretty much has the Blairite lot, or did, and those further to the left. Now McSweeney’s gone I can see the left could push for more policy changes.

It is not. It's called Keynesian economics and it's what rebuilt the country after the Second World War. Incidentally, Keynesian economics was also the model behind Roosevelt's plans after the Great Depression and this led to America becoming one of the richest countries in the world.

@DiySteve im asking what the alternative is?

New legislation would have to be introduced to ensure companies operating in the UK can only report earnings per country they operate in. By having to submit earnings within the UK and not being diverted to low tax jurisdictions would be a good start!

You're banging your head against a brick wall. I'm stunned by the anti-business attitude on here.

I think this is a ridiculously alarmist thread and I question the motivation. Maybe more regular MN’ers will be reassured that this is genuine but it sounds more like a deliberate attempt to stir up outrage on MM for poor journalism.

That business could've afforded market rate wages before NI and business rates hikes

Not all businesses should survive though. The 08 crash which we never recovered from was different to previous recessions in that unemployment was lower but wages were impacted. This is impacting productivity now.

The NHS is a leviathan, and is protected, chiefly because the majority of those who work for it, vote Labour, I suspect.

Slash and burn waste, punitive contracts, overpaid consultants, time wasting patients presenting with self-inflicted dependencies on alcohol/recreational drugs.

How’s that for a start.

Our country doesn’t have enough money being generated from private sector jobs because there are not enough good quality jobs in the first place due to lack of innovation, class system, offshoring and the UK living the past… These good quality jobs create a cascading effect across the economy providing money for downstream private and public sector jobs. Coupled with an aging population, supported by an ever decreasing working population the government are having to find new ways to raise money and are borrowing more and more which is making UK PLC very vulnerable. I try not to think about where we are headed but am very fearful about the future.

Things were famously so much better before NMW, when we had casual contracts, and pretty much the employer-driven free-for-all you are advocating.

Except, no they weren't. We still had rampant unemployment, wage slavery, and enormous proportions of our workforce living in poverty.

Guess what? Commercial business is driven by one thing only, profit.

There are lots of roles that just don't exist because the economic value is less than the minimum wage

Yes, because employers can't pay minimum wage and still turn a profit from these "roles", so why is your expectation that someone should fill them and live in penury regardless?

Anyone with an ounce of common sense is not going to go and work for a mercenary employer who cares not a jot about them, for a pittance wage that sees them living in poverty anyway, when that job comes with no prospect of advancement and carries no benefit or perks, and especially not against the backdrop of gutted employment law which also means no leave entitlement, legal protection against vindictive employers, no SSP, no pension, etc etc

You would genuinely be better off sat on the sofa, because you wouldn't have the expense of work, and you wouldn't have the headache of trying to find childcare, or be at risk of missing out on xmas etc because your employer invariably expects you to work holidays and so on.

We've been in your situation before, and it was utterly fucking miserable.