Ayahuasca, LSD, meditation etc - to ask if you or anyone you know tried and what’s it like

[Hulabalu]

I am never going to try drugs as I’d fear for my life / mind! BUT , from a spirituality standpoint I am curious about people’s experiences. Apparently meditation can create similar state, similar spiritual revelations ?? but I’m not good at that either 😂

I once got high and more than a bit euphoric by listening to Krishna Das sing Hare Krishna while spinning around. It’s totally possible without drugs!

I used to take LSD when i was younger, i loved it! Great fun.

I meditate regularly and sometimes have weird experiences (maybe 4 or 5 times a year). I also teach it.

I’ve micro dosed magic mushrooms and found them to be great for depression and anxiety. Since regularly meditating I don’t need antidepressants or shrooms any more!

Regular meditation does the same thing but it’s a slower paced process. I’ve heard people say taking a larger dose of mushrooms is like taking a sledge hammer to open your mind, meditation opens it brick by brick.

I think this is a really good question.

I've absolutely achieved blissful, realisation-of-the-oneness-of-the-universe-and-all-of-life states in both acid trips and meditation.

I found it first on acid, but once I found it, it's much easier to get there with meditation these days. And with meditation you can get in and out of that state more easily, and don't have to put aside so much time for the trip and the return to reality.

Mushrooms are pleasant and beauty-of-life-and-the-universe, but not in the same league, IMHO. It feels much more connected to nature and our earthly existence, whereas acid is more a state of oneness with the totality of the whole universe.

Ketamine has some similar aspects for depth of meaning, but a totally different experience, which I experience more as losing the edges between me and the rest of the universe, all of us blurring into one. Much less euphoric though.

Haven't tried Ayahuasca but would like to.
DMT (the active ingredient) only lasts about 7 mins when smoked and without the inhibitory effects of the rest of the Ayahuasca tea blend, so it gives very pretty visuals but not much in the way of esoteric or spiritual insights. And it's disgustingly harsh to smoke.

On the whole, meditation is good for everyday, whereas the drugs are a max couple of times a year kind of thing. But also, there is so much research currently into benefits of psychedelic therapies for many sorts of trauma, end of life issues, to get people out of depression and anxiety by using the neuroplasticity effects, etc, that I expect to see much greater knowledge and less scare mongering about them in future.

I think there’s many paths into self hypnosis and it can be achieved at various levels. The most important thing is to really strengthen the imagination to such an extent that it becomes a very strong muscle.

The second thing to do is find something which cuts out the critical function in your brain. Some people it’s visual like staring at a mandala, others it might be hearing certain drum patens (Viking war drums work well on me), others it might be a progressive relaxation through the body, lying down and tensing and relaxing each muscle in your body working from your feet upwards. If you have a good imagination you can imagine light moving through your body. If you search up “middle pillar” practice this is very good. Somethings work better for some than others. Are you an auditory, visual or feeling person.

The rest is just story telling. Your mind will construct stories which allow it to make sense of important stuff. It will automatically frame it in a story that makes sense to you, which is why people who think they are shamanic will suddenly have stories about native Americans (even though it logically makes no sense) it’s just the language our subconscious (and what that is is going to depend on perspectives) uses to communicate to us.

Re books, it depends on your perspective. Most spiritual frameworks will approach this in a slightly different way, what I’ve found most important is to stay within a system, are you drawn to Eastern Mysticism, western mysticism, shamanism magical systems like the Golden Dawn, Thelema or more a scientific/therapeutic perspective? It’s important to find something with the language and stories that you connect with. This is the “mistake” people make. Not finding what they connect with so they don’t maximise the experience.

edit, forgot certain breathing techniques will also get you into an altered state of consciousness- I’ve had some incredible trips that way

This is so helpful, thank you. 💜

I'm definitely an auditory person and have had some almost out-of-body experiences with sound healing before. Do your viking war drums have to be 'live and in person' or can you listen via headphones? There is something very primal about a drum beat.

I'm mostly drawn to eastern mysticism and shamanism interests me too. If you have any recommendations that may help me dive deeper I'd love to try them.

The Viking war drums I use are just in you tube but search round to find something that resonates (no pun intended).

Personally I’ve never clicked with Eastern philosophy and in my experience westerners often come un stuck beyond a certain superficial level, but I noticed someone upthread said they were a practicing Buddhist @WongandLynch would you be able to recommend anything.

Re Shamanism. I would recommend finding someone/a group to try guided shamanic journeying first. This book is a good introduction https://amzn.eu/d/05ztASkd

This is a good book re self hypnosis techniques as it gives good background and some very simple techniques https://amzn.eu/d/02qEtWhb.

What is drawing you to Eastern systems as a matter of interest?

Ooh those viking drums are great, it just made my hands tingle!

Eastern is just what I'm more familiar with (mantras, kriyas, yoga, breathwork etc). It seems sensible to me plus my body (and mind!) enjoy the practices. I had Catholicism drummed into me as a child so that probably put me off more western style beliefs.

I've ordered the Shamanism book, thank you! Your second link didnt work but if you let me know the title I will look it up myself.

The Spiritualism section of mumsnet is not very active, which is a real shame because this thread has been fantastic with a lot of knowledgeable posters and kindness. I really thought the usual naysayers would be on to tell us we were all addicts and should be in jail!

Any spiritual / mind expanding experiences?

Hi, it’s The Seven Most Effective Methods of Self- hypnosis : How to Create Rapid Change in your Health, Wealth, and Habits. By Richard Nonguard

yes a lot of people are put off by organised religion from Western paths which is a really big shame, we often refer to it as “cross phobia”. But it’s actually often most effective on the Western mind as it speaks the right language.But Eastern philosophy is more accessible at least on a superficial level with all the yoga studios - it’s a fantastic debate East v West and one my friend )who favours Eastern traditions) and I have gleefully been having for years 😀.

Unfortunately the bit in between science and organised religion often gets attacked by everyone else. But people are missing some fantastic insights to life and the universe

with the drums try it in whatever meditative pose works - if you like eastern stuff maybe legs crossed on the floor. Eyes closed hands on lap. So something like four fold breath before hand to relax followed by several deep sighs - good luck

Thank you for everyone’s messages and stories about their experiences, I find it all very interesting and will be looking into lots of these recommendations. It’s great to connect with others with this interest / experiences ☺️

For my 50th birthday I decided to try some new things. I had thought about mdma as I never wanted to take that when I was younger due to the Leah Betts tragedy. In the end having spoken to my then DP about it at length (he was very knowledgeable and experienced in many drugs) I decided to try a low dose of LSD. It was nice, nothing major, just some slightly enhanced colours and visuals, and a feeling of happiness. I remember seeing an animal in a field and I couldn’t figure out if it was a sheep, a cow or a dog as it looked very boxy with a square head. I started laughing until I cried at this poor animal. Then just got absorbed in looking at the sky, which was rushing along in whirls of cloud. I took photos and they look nothing like what I saw .

The next time I tried mushrooms and can honestly say it was the best day of my life. It started with everything being shinier and more beautiful than ever, the tarmac on the road looked like sparkling Mediterranean tiles in every colour you could imagine, the sky like a prismatic dome, the chirp of insects was so loud and the flowers in the hedgerows had little eyes that were blinking at me.

It kicked in fully and then I started to feel overwhelmed by it so we decided to walk back home, but the journey felt like hours and I didn’t recognise where we were. I didn’t trust my perception of time so was scared to cross a road. I realised we should have stayed at home as we weren’t really safe to be outside. It was certainly much stronger than my DP had ever experienced before. When we got home I stayed in the kitchen. He went upstairs and was having a not-very-nice time.

I however was in ecstasy, literally like an orgasm that didn’t stop, I just kept saying ‘wow’ over and over, and making strange noises and giggling, which was concerning for him to hear as he wasn’t sure if it was good or bad noises! I felt a strong sense of connection to the trees outside, my place in the world, how it’s all connected etc. I went to the loo and saw the universe between my legs. I spent a lot of time looking at the sparkling quartz worktops in the kitchen and watching water run through my hands at the sink. It wore off after about 4 hours. It was the most beautiful thing I’ve ever experienced. I read someone say that he felt bad once he had tried mushrooms as he would have to tell his children that them being born was only the second best thing that had happened to him! I can kind of agree

I tried it a second time a few months later. I think the setting made a difference as we were in a dark cottage in the Peak District on a grey and stormy day. So the brooding atmosphere I think added to the trip, making it a much less bright and sparkly experience. It was very ‘whoosh-y’ but still amazing. At one point I became my mum. I was my own daughter and my brothers were my children - it was a really grounding moment that made me feel so connected to my mum. I took a selfie thinking I would see her face! And I think I do look more like her in that pic than any other to be fair, I kind of want to show it to my family and ask if they see her but don’t want to out myself for taking drugs!

I really think that was enough, I have no desire to do it again tbh. The second trip was already slightly less amazing than the first and I was also more anxious, knowing what was to come, and ended up wishing it would finish. But I’m so glad I did it.

Side note - sorry this is long already. But it’s something worth noting. I used to have the most amazing multiple orgasms with an ex where I would see colours and shapes and what I described as architecture - like windows or doors that I went through and then there were more windows and I was going through them one after the other as I was orgasming. I now realise this was psychedelic! I would never tell him that as his head was big enough already but the man literally made me trip through sex!!

I suggest you try a shamanic drumming session. I go to these a few times a year. Sage smudging, lots of drumming and singing or chanting, a shamanic journey, spirit cards and then more drumming to heal people. Then herbal tea and homemade cookies around a log fire. It's an entirely safe, structured and guided environment but you get a lot from it.

Gong baths are good too, if you respond well to auditory stimuli. They go right through your body.

Yep shamanic drumming is good esp if i go you are a movement person. Chanting is great to stimulate the vagus nerve and therefore balance the parasympathetic nervous system the best effect I’ve found is the middle pillar exercise. But I’d agree I think “shamanism” is a great way into spirituality, you tend to experience a variety of access points, sound, movement, smell and visualisation.

it’s interesting you’ve mentioned sound baths - I’ve had some quite visceral adverse reactions to some of the metal bowls.

This very much reminds me of Aldous Huxley’s description in the Doors of Perception. From memory he took mescaline a forerunner of LSD. Huxley (as the name of the book suggests) was a big fan of William Blake and he comments on what he needed drugs to see Blake would naturally see. So pretty much along the lines of some of the comments here. The auguries of innocence sound very much like your visions using mushrooms

A while ago there was a great discussion on the chat from people attending a zoom talk from David Worrall with the Blake Society. He was talking about his book on Blake’s Visions, particularly focusing on what many scholars now identify as Blake’s Synesthasia. In the chat there was quite a discussion about people (most are Blake scholars and experts) identifying large aspects of neurological divergency with Blake, particularly ADHD.

Most of the people I’ve met who have the clearest visions without drugs have ADHD, I wonder if this is linked to the constant use of the imagination, ability to spot patterns and draw out conclusions etc. I’d love to see some really in-depth research round this and its potential.

I had a friend who's younger sister tried Ayahuasca in her twenties while abroad at some kind of resort where they offer a spiritual journey and she came back with bad anxiety which led to aneroxia and it was really scary. I am not sure if there is a direct link between this but I wouldn't advise it just incase.

I’ve tried acid and mushrooms. Mushrooms just make people giggly. Acid; couldn’t really see what the fuss was about. Left me with weird visuals for a few hours but nothing particularly mind expanding.

Apparently the acid we get in this country was much stronger prior to a famous 1970s drug bust. Anyone who has taken it post 1980 hasn’t taken the real mind blowing stuff.

Like all drugs, I think it hugely depends on who is taking them: their metabolism, their mental state and thr circumstances in which they’re taken

I think it’s really really important to think very carefully and research before entering into any conscious altering activity whether it be drug induced or not. Even hypnosis has several contraindications like previous psychosis. My own spiritual practice recommends a year’s psychoanalytic therapy before starting. And it’s hard to see if the chicken comes before the egg but I’ve known several practitioners take their own lives.

Granted sitting in a sports hall going “ohm” is unlikely to have any serious side effects, if you expand your mind beyond the mundane you need to be sure as hell you either have guidance or knowledge and ability to ground yourself.

I’ve never started down any path without guidance and a good mentor I trust implicitly

Oh wow that’s really interesting thank you! Funnily enough I am convinced I have ADHD and quite likely autism too. I am very creative and always spotting patterns - I studied history of architecture at uni which is why I presumed the ‘visions’ I had during orgasms were architectural in their nature but then once I realised about fractals and closed eye visuals I understood what I’d been seeing! Will have a look for Doors of Perception.

My dad took LSD in 70’s in his teens said it was the best thing he ever felt absolute joy and freedom until he went home and found a full size red indian chief in full native dress standing with his arms crossed frowning at him in is bedroom. Wasn’t so smart then.

This is a really useful caveat. Given that my DP and I took the same thing from the same batch in weight appropriate amounts, we had very different experiences of it each time. His MH is a bit wobbly at the best of times, he’s taken lots of different things, both recreational and prescribed over the years, so is much more experienced and knowledgeable than me. But that all made for a less enjoyable trip by his recounting of it!

If you can try and look for a copy of it with Heaven and Hell as this is a follow up. I’ve attached a picture of Huxleys foreword

Yes it’s really important to train yourself on grounding/embodiment techniques. Maybe lucid dreaming would be a good start as that centres on control

A relative of mine did an ayahuasca retreat and it changed her life. She went from being a super high flying city type (imagine someone like Jessica Pearson in Suits), to setting up her own not-for-profit version of her specialism. She seems incredibly content now.

What is your practise ? I agree even meditation can have risks