Painter Stole Key

[roibustea]

I just had an empty property painted and gave the painter a spare key. The painter completed the job and it looks lovely, but he took the key when he went. He said he'd drop it back today or tomorrow first thing, which I said is fine. But he's text this morning to ask whether I've paid. I am not inclined to pay until I get my key back, as once I've paid he has no motivation to return it, and I do need it to give to other people coming next week. And I obviously also don't really want this man to have full access to my house! Is it normal for tradespeople to hold keys hostage until you've paid? This seems really dodgy to me, is he planning to go into my house and do something if I don't pay?! Am I unreasonable to text back telling him I'll pay when I get my key?

I wish he would. Then I could ask him why he stole my key.

Pay him and then change the locks so he can't access your house and change the locks himself.

Is there a reason why you haven't paid him or were you hoping he'd forget that you owe him?

It is not really stealing your key but I see you have paid now anyway so he should return it. Thing is he has had ample time now to copy it anyway if he was keeping it for nefarious reasons.

@Barrenfieldoffucks depending on the size and cost of the job, “cash on completion” is very much NOT the accepted way of paying tradesmen. £20 for a small job maybe, but 100s of £ I would expect a proper invoice, which I would pay by bank transfer, and would therefore go through the tradesman’s books. I’m happy to give £20 cash here and there for regular tradesmen to avoid a bit of tax, but definitely not for a big job, and not to someone I didn’t know.

And it’s not my fault if a tradesman has had a bad experience with customers not paying. I’ve never not paid a bill in my life, and I’d be furious if a tradesman took a possession of mine as insurance against non-payment.

@ElevensesKing is there a reason why you haven’t read the OP’s posts?

Why do you keep saying that he has "stolen" your key

He hasn't

You gave him a key

Surely, if he was so desperate to have a key to your house, then he would have just had a copy made? Just pay him and you'll get your key back

Yup, you got me. I've made up that I'm annoyed he took my key to try and get out of paying. Obviously I don't really care at all if he steals my belongings, it was actually all a ruse to play for time so he'll forget that he spent the past three days painting my house and hasn't received any money. Imagine my surprise this morning when it turned out that a whole 18 hours after he left (with my key), he still remembered 🙄

£1800. Payment by bank transfer agreed.

He had absolutely no reason to take the key once the painting was finished. I did not give him a key, I gave him temporary use of a key. Permission to have and use the key was only for as long as he needed to do work. Once the work was completed, the permission was withdrawn and so he took the key without my permission. Which is stealing. It may have been a mistake - which would mean he stole it by mistake. Which is obviously understandable and not remotely a problem, but he has not given any indication it was accidental. His messages make it sound like he deliberately took my key, despite being fully aware that the work was complete and he no longer had permission. Which very much is stealing, and is illegal. This is very basic law. Though I admittedly probably wouldn't get very far if I took it to the police!

And - as I have said (repeatedly), I don't think he's planning to burgle me, I think he took my key to hold as a threat. So presumably if I had any concerns with the work, I would have been unable to raise them without the possibility of him coming into my property. Which I find unsettling. I am also concerned I won't get my key back, which is annoying and will cost me money.

Also - I HAVE PAID!

We have yet to see if I'll get my key back.

Change the locks, even if he returns it now that you've paid up. It's not about stealing your items, there's a risk he can take possession of the house by changing the locks himself. Then you'll have a palaver trying to get access to your own house. I wouldn't chase him for the key, I would simply change the locks before he does.

Is it normal for tradespeople to hold keys hostage until you've paid?

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Me just sitting here thinking about all the keys I've given tradesmen over the years. Don't think I got them all back! I'm not even slightly bothered or worried. If they wanted, they could make copies and give back the original. If you don't trust someone, don\t give them a key in the first place.

It makes me laugh that you keep saying he 'stole' your key.

He hasn't stolen your key.

You gave it to him. What were your instructions for when he finished? Did you tell him what to do with the key?

He finished your painting yesterday. You messaged to say it was good work but you didn't pay him. You asked about your key. He said he'd drop it off. Absolutely no issue. If you wanted it sooner why didn't you make ask.

Yesterday you could have said, painting great, I'll do bank transfer now, tomorrow or whenever. You didn't mention the almost £2000 that you owed him.

He waits until today and you still haven't paid so he asks you for what is rightly his.

This is a YOU issue.

FFS really???

What world do you live in that a random painter takes possession of a house he's painted.

It’s glaringly obvious to anyone with half a brain that the painter deliberately took the key as insurance against non payment. Maybe that’s what he always does in those situations. Maybe he’s been ripped off by non payers before. Maybe he thought OP seemed dodgy.

Whatever the reason, it’s very inappropriate of him to do it. Very unprofessional behaviour. And I can almost guarantee he wouldn’t do it to a male customer.

Me personally I'd have paid him as soon as I saw the job was adequate. The key wouldn't stop me paying him.
Just say I need to give it to someone else so please drop it in today. I'll do the payment today also.

If it's a new (to you) flat you should change the locks, who knows who else has keys? First thing we always do.

You are massively overthinking this.

You'll get your key back.

You lend a key to someone so they can work on an unoccupied house and just 24hrs after he’s finished you think he’s stolen it?
No, he just hasn't got around to giving it back because he doesn’t see it as a big deal, because it isn’t. He’s probably busy. Now you’ve paid, just remind him to return it.
Tbh, if this is a key you’ve been given on acquiring the house then you have no idea who out there already has a key to the current lock. It’s pretty normal to change the lock on a new property.

umm no, if someone else has a key, its lock change time.

Thank you, other than the bit about me maybe seeming dodgy - oi! 😂

I'm pretty sure it was deliberate - he has now text "got it thanks. will drop key tomorrow." So he's obviously linking me paying to him returning my belongings. And the reason I said I wouldn't use him again despite being cheap, quick and good is precisely because I do indeed suspect he is a bit of a chauvinist... His attitude was very rude, he wouldn't even look at me when he was talking, and he made stupid jokes to his little mate suggesting women can't park. Despite the fact the woman can't park because he took up two spaces with his van, and the gap he left is smaller than her actual car...

It seems I probably should change the locks anyway, it is a lot cheaper than I imagined and it's better safe than sorry. It didn't really occur to me, so thanks to all who advised it.

He probably took the key as wasn’t sure if it was the only key and if he had left inside you’d be stuffed ! Pay the man ffs

I work with many agents and landlords and often have keys for days

Sometimes, if busy and I know I don't have the only spare it can take a couple of days for me to be in the same area to drop off a key. I spend so much time and petrol returning the bloody things that I actively look for ways to reduce the wasted effort with early pick ups, later drop offs

Maybe you painter is of the same mind.

The leap to it is stolen/held for ransom is a classic example of the Mumsnet Paranoia

That too is one of my work nightmares

@ChequerToRed when she asked him for the key, he asked her if she’d paid. It’s a clear implication that the key would be returned when payment had been received.