I'm 16 and I need some perspective

[BeDearFawn]

Hello, I'm 16 and I just had a disagreement with my mum that has left me quite upset and confused.

She was looking at photos from my school dance and made some negative comments about some of my friends' dresses and their figures. She said things like how my best friend's dress made her look bad and stupid, how another friend's dress made her look fat and short, and was just commenting negatively on her figure and overall appearance.

I really care about my friends as they are such lovely and encouraging people and I love them. I think they look stunning whatever they wear because it's who they are that matters to me.

I didn't feel comfortable with these comments, so I said something like, "would you still say this if they weren't my friends?" My mum got very upset and said things along the lines of how I make people hate me easily and that I'll end up with fewer and fewer friends.

I reckon the reason why she was upset is because I'm no longer friends with a former friend who tends to speak negatively about people's looks, in ways that are similar to my mum. The former friend also tears me down with the things she says to me. My mum seemed to think I was being unfair or had a double standard for defending my friends but not keeping that friendship.

Now I'm wondering if I handled it badly as maybe my mum would still have said that if they weren't my friends. I'm in need for some maturity and perspectives as I'm worried I will actually lose my friends who I love.

Your mum is being a bit of an arse with the comments. But 20 years ago we were positively encouraged to make such comments (go back and watch a 90s chick flick it's all about weight and looks). I wonder if there is element of jealousy here about you spending time with others, not her, some kind of self esteem issue on her part.

I don't think this is worth blowing up into a huge deal. Next time just say "urgh mum. You're so dated. We don't really comment on physical appearance now".

Presumably, at 16, you'll be off out of the family home in the next few years. Then your mum won't have so much input or visibility about your friendship circles anyway.

It sounds like you are a kind, accepting person. You surround yourself with people with similar qualities.

If I were your mother, I’d be proud of you. However, some women have grown up with friends and family who are obsessed by looks. You can’t really change your mother. The main thing is that she loves and takes care of you.

It’s also a point of fact that 16 year olds go through a phase of dressing in wild ways. At one point I thought I’d go for a bohemian goth look.

YANBU your mother is. It's rude and petty to comment negatively on others in the way your mum and former friend do. Many, many women do this though.

Don’t change who you are. You are absolutely right that who your friends are on the inside matters and if you ever needed someone how the respond to you will matter not what they are wearing and their dress size when they do it.

Well I don’t think you handled it badly by asking the question. I think the question probably didn’t need to be asked because your mum sounds very rude, so I suspect she would have said it about people who weren’t your friends.

But I’m not sure what this has to do with you losing friends. You sound like a lovely person, and it’s clear that you didn’t want to engage in making negative comments with your mum.

You sound lovely with lovely supportive friends - your mum is probably envious and feels bad for slating them and upsetting you. Don’t change - I expect if you apologise then so will she and it’ll all be forgotten

Mums can be weird - mine brought me up to obsess about weight, being fat is the worst thing you can be, its constantly commented on and discussed. It gave me binge eating disorder which made me fat. She was fat and went on mounjaro and you can imagine how fun that was 😅

I had an epiphany when she told me if her partner put on weight she'd dump him. Her partner is an aggressive nasty man who everyone hates, constantly negging her, stressing her out and bringing her down. She would put up with THAT for 20yrs, but but if he put on a few pounds its over? (Plus, SHE was fat for decades pre mounjaro!) I decided she was not a moral compass after that and actually became at peace with my weight and have not gone on mounjaro 🤷‍♀️

Make your own moral code OP

It sounds like your mum has a bit of a tricky personality and was projecting her own insecurities here. You are right to care more about your friends characters than their appearances as it's good character that makes a good friend.

I'd try to get be kind to your mum, this is how she sees the world and it's probably not going to change any time soon. People talk a lot about "calling out" things but in my experience that's more likely to create drama than a positive change so think carefully before you take that approach.

There is a marked generational difference in how accepting younger people are. It’s not a bad thing at all. You lot are much nicer.

There is a downside in that sometimes you accept people that you should maybe avoid. But as long as you don’t get sucked into other people’s dramas, you do you. That’s Mum advice from me!

YANBU, and it is great that you have the backbone to stand up for your friends.

Her “easy to hate” comment is really quite nasty and shows way more about her character than anything else.

However, you have to live with your Mum, and need to find a way to do that without arguments.
Some phrases you could use are “We’ll have to agree to differ about that.” or “Do you think so, I think she looks lovely” or “Mum, I don’t really like it when you belittle my friends. My friends don’t deserve that, and I don’t do it to your friends.” or “Mum, I’m not going to join in with you rubbishing my friends. Can we change the topic.”

Maybe your Mum was looking to do a bit of bonding with you over joint criticism of these outfits in the photos and is upset because you drew your boundaries a bit bluntly and she can see you’re not on her “side” in this instance. It’s hard because she may be clumsily trying to pass on advice about what looks good or not. We all feel we don’t need advice like this at 16 and I knocked my mother back in similar circumstances but I look back at the photos now and totally get what she was trying to say, I had no idea what suited me and following the fashion of the time - which was heavily influenced by my particular group- was doing nothing for me.
Really this is a storm in a teacup and can be easily sorted. If I were you I’d say to Mum, “sorry if I upset you when I asked you not to criticise my friends, I love them, they support me and criticism of them is upsetting to me. I didn’t mean to offend you”
There is a mismatch between what you think you said and your Mothers apparent overreaction to it. Either she is a drama queen or you were more defensive than you think. Have a think about where the truth lies and moderate your behaviour accordingly. There is nothing the matter with politely laying down a boundary as to how you feel about superficial criticism of your friends looks. You are a good and loyal friend. Try to maintain a good relationship with your mother too as she loves you also and she will still be in your life in 30 years time. Sadly these intense teenage friendships probably won’t.

She must’ve been a mean girl then and she’s a mean girl now. Forthe most part people don’t change and I can imagine how shallow and judgmental she must’ve been back in the day. This is how it was for a lot of women. It was encouraged and expected behaviour patterns and if you weren’t like that you were bullied. It became a hierarchy. I was bullied mercilessly at high school and I never engaged in that way of being. I am very sorry your mum said those things. You have responded in an emotionally mature and patient way. You will have lots of good and loving friends as you get older as clearly you are giving this out.
You’re mum was very rude and mean and I am sorry you had to put up with that. If she is ok in other ways and loves you and cares for you (and doesn’t say those kind of things about you) then allow it to blow over as you will leave home soon enough. BUT if this behaviour is a symptom of a bigger problem with how she treats you then conversations need to be had. Though she may not change…

Well done for being so kind and patient.

Thank you
I reckon this is a symptom of a bigger problem as this is the way she treats me. My saw my best friend's mum at the dance, who told her she was beautiful and gave her a kiss I'm so envious of my best friend but I'm happy for her.

I wonder if there is element of jealousy here about you spending time with others, not her, some kind of self esteem issue on her part.

100% this. She's jealous. She's not going to parties in nice dresses with loads of friends and her whiole life in front if her, looking young and beautiful and she wishes she was.

I'm jealous too. The difference is I'm not being am arse about it.

I believe the many people your age are much kinder than people in my generation was. Those comments from your mum was very uncalled for - but not unusual among many women. Look at many magazines or trash paper headlines, it is about being horrid about peoples’ looks.

There is maybe an element as well that she knows that the world can be kinder to pretty girls and she is desperate for you to have that advantage (and tries to “steer” your view). I believe that some people now call it “pretty privilege”.

My children are your age and I love them deeply and want the world for them. Sometimes my input is unhelpful and annoys them (mostly when asking “too many questions” about their day, not appreciating that they have a “study plan”, suggesting that certain clothes look nice that they think are really ugly etc).

just tell her (as mine tell me). “Urgh mum, that is unhelpful / you are dated / we don’t say those things these days/ etc”. As a mum, most of us accept that, especially if there is a hug involved as well.

We love our amazing children, sometimes we don’t understand them, say the wrong thing when trying to interact or are generally annoying.

I’m so surprised at the amount of people saying “Oh, it was like that back in the day” I’m not sure which day, because I really don’t think it was ever normal, it was the behaviour of a small sub set of unhappy people.

I was 16 at the end of the eighties, and while we weren’t as vocally supportive as today’s teenager are, we absolutely celebrated each other’s successes, and were not mean.

What I remember is my 2000s teen magazines having whole sections about celebrity clothing choices and even body shaming. In hindsight it could be quite jarring as there would also be more sympathetic articles about self esteem or eating disorders. I'm not saying everyone did it but this stuff inevitably has a normalising effect.

Maybe try asking her which she would prefer for you: fat friends with bad dress sense who are fun, supportive and loving, or slim well-dressed friends who are mean bitches always tearing you down.

My daughter has a friend whose mum is quite controlling and constantly seems to evaluate people in terms of looks, weight, dress, even straightness of teeth. None of her daughter’s friends or her own daughter look favourably on her. She’s probably a result of her generation that these issues were given such weight. It has affected her relationship with her daughter who prefers to hang here where external appearances are not given such importance. I guess you will end up choosing where you spend your time if your mum is like this.

I had a former friend who was always tearing me down but she is smart and gets amazing grades and my mum absolutely prefers her. She is still upset I am no longer friends with her.

My mother is like this, I just don’t engage and say that it’s not nice - tbf she has stopped doing it around me now. If someone is overweight and wearing a shirt skirt for example and she said something, I’ll just say ‘good on her, as long as she’s happy, who cares’
The cruel comments your mother made about you personally, was her being defensive because you caught her out. As you get older, you will see her flaws more - just learn from this and use it as an example of how you do not want to treat people and rise above it. Continue on the path you are on and don’t doubt yourself.

Some of it is generational. Like a previous poster says in the 90s we did this all the time - about celebs and other people. It was awful really.

Younger generations are much kinder in their comments.

My father (now in his 70s) will often comment on ‘tell me you wouldn’t wear that if you had her thighs’ or ‘she’ll break that chair if she sits on it’. Awful comments really and thankfully now his children and grandchildren call him out. But it’s very much the comments everyone was saying until the late 90s.

I think
apologise to you mother for upsetting her an explain you don’t like negative comments on people’s appearance. Hopefully she’ll appreciate the apology and take on board what you’ve said.

Your mum sounds like a nightmare. I’m 46 and her behaviour was wrong back in my day too, not sure why people are excusing this as a generational thing.

for me, the uncalled for comments were gross to make about anyone and especially a child. Was she never taught the phrase, popular with my Granny’s generation, “if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all”?

im also very concerned the way she turned the whole thing into a personal attack on you and your friendships. Totally uncalled for and terrible parenting.

I’d feel sorry for her though, she sounds mean and bitter and it’s sad that she 1. Gets her kicks tearing down others, and 2. When called out cannot just learn to consider her actions and apologise, and instead doubles down.

What on earth does she mean by "you make people hate you easily"? I don't see any evidence to support that in what you've written. Sounds like she may be projecting her own traits onto you, since making unprompted negative comments on someone's looks and appearance is definitely one way to make someone dislike you!

It sounds like you know what's going on here. My mum has a massive mean streak (at this point it's probably most of her personality rather than a streak!) and I had to learn before I even became a teenager that I couldn't rely on her for advice on how to become a well adjusted adult.

My advice? Trust your instincts. You know what makes a good friend even if your mum doesn't.

Your mother is being mean. I'd have said something more along the lines of handsome is as handsome does and wouldn't she prefer that were friends with nice people and were happy with people who weren't always being snide about others..