I'm 16 and I need some perspective

[BeDearFawn]

Hello, I'm 16 and I just had a disagreement with my mum that has left me quite upset and confused.

She was looking at photos from my school dance and made some negative comments about some of my friends' dresses and their figures. She said things like how my best friend's dress made her look bad and stupid, how another friend's dress made her look fat and short, and was just commenting negatively on her figure and overall appearance.

I really care about my friends as they are such lovely and encouraging people and I love them. I think they look stunning whatever they wear because it's who they are that matters to me.

I didn't feel comfortable with these comments, so I said something like, "would you still say this if they weren't my friends?" My mum got very upset and said things along the lines of how I make people hate me easily and that I'll end up with fewer and fewer friends.

I reckon the reason why she was upset is because I'm no longer friends with a former friend who tends to speak negatively about people's looks, in ways that are similar to my mum. The former friend also tears me down with the things she says to me. My mum seemed to think I was being unfair or had a double standard for defending my friends but not keeping that friendship.

Now I'm wondering if I handled it badly as maybe my mum would still have said that if they weren't my friends. I'm in need for some maturity and perspectives as I'm worried I will actually lose my friends who I love.

I feel for you and I'm sorry your mum is being like this.
My mum is also this way. Our views, values and opinions could not be more different. I think I first realised this at age 16. It look a while to understand it was her life experiences that shaped her and I could be different and not follow her script.
I'm now in my 50s and she's in her 70s.
I love her but I'm having a good life with people I choose to be around and my children are all accepting, kind and non judgemental.
Be proud of who you are.

I think we all have to grow up and face up to our parents limitations. We will have our own limitations too, no one is perfect. This doesn't mean that you can't try to make the best of the good qualities your parents have. I think learning how to deal with the behaviours you don't like is a great skill.

Why on earth should the OP apologize!? Her mother was in the wrong.
OP, I would just greet any further remarks like that with a chilling silence. My mother isn't as bad as yours, but she sometimes makes very silly comments. When she does, I just say nothing at all. She has learned what that means. Granted, I'm in my forties but I have a far stronger personality than my mother anyway. You also sound much stronger than your mother. If she is like that a lot, I would grey rock her as much as possible.

Yeah, this. Also, if the OP was complaining about her father not her mother, I reckon we would see far less of the softly softly approach. It infuriates me how often poor female behaviour is handwaved on this site.

Then this is the bigger issue; that she is unkind to you and denigrates you. This isn’t acceptable. You need to find the strength in you to call it out every time. Every. Time. This will result in it either changing or at least a realisation that you have boundaries and have drawn your line in the sand. It could go badly but do you want to live like this?

Honestly? Your mum sounds like she's being a bitch. Keep being you, quietly and marvellously. Having a supportive friendship group is worth it's weight in gold and you're very lucky.
The old saying about how you can't choose your family is a truism, and ultimately it's the people you choose to surround yourself with who will shape how you live in the world.
You and your friends sound lovely.
Who knows what your mum's motives are at this point. Maybe she feels left out, maybe she's projecting insecurities from her own girl hood onto you, maybe she's just misguided.
Mother daughter relationships are often a bit fractious (mine with my mum certainly is!) but remember that she loves you even if she's doing a rubbish job of showing it sometimes!

For what it's worth OP from what you've posted you do sound like a much nicer person than your mother.

You’re being a great friend. She may be reflecting her own experience of losing friends because she says judgemental things.

I suspect she grew up in a time when society in general was VERY openly judgemental about women’s bodies and appearance e.g. the 1990s when we were all supposed to be stick thin and boyishly proportioned and had internalised this judgement.

She hasn’t caught up with the fact that much kinder, more self-accepting attitudes have become the norm now.

From the perspective of a 90s teen young women do look overweight and recklessly dressed for their body-shape now. It’s quite joyful and freeing I would say - but I can understand it being jarring too.

I'm really surprised that people are saying that it is a generational thing, OP.

I'm in my fifties and my own lovely mother is dead now, but she would never have dreamt of making such unkind and unnecessary comments about my friends. Or about anybody to be honest.

I would also never dream of making such nasty comments to my dd about her friends.

So I don't think it's an age thing, personally. I think it's just a personality thing. Some women seem to feel better about themselves if they criticise other women about their appearances. And about other stuff sometimes. It probably stems from a place of insecurity, I guess, but it isn't very nice.

There probably isn't much point in engaging in a debate about this with your mum, because you may just end up feeling upset. If she says something like that in future, just respond and say "really? I think they look beautiful". And keep saying it if she persists.

You sound like a lovely, kind person. Your mum should be very proud of you.

I’m late 50s and I know a few people like this (similar age) but most of my friends wouldn’t dream of being so judgemental and mean.

I have two adult DDs and went out of my way not to comment negatively on weight etc when they were growing up. Not that I would but even a tiny comment can have an affect on impressionable teens.

This is just silly. There were plenty of teens who were not stick thin in the nineties. Just because it was the 'ideal' among some people doesn't mean that everyone was skinny. They weren't. I was a teen in the nineties and I remember it clearly. Also, I don't remember middle aged women being meaner during the nineties, either! If anything, it is the ones who were teens during that era, ie middle aged now, who would have those attitudes. I remember there actually was quite a backlash to heroin chic, while girls may have aspired to look like Kate Moss, a lot of adults thought she looked disgusting!

This. It doesn't have to be a massive deal.

Your mum shouldn't have said those things but honestly you are also being over sensitive too. You are going to hear a lot worse and going to have to learn to deal with it. You seem very innocent and sadly the real world is liable to eat you alive. It's ok to point out to your mum it's not ok to say those things but getting upset and making it more of a deal won't achieve anything else except make you upset.

I feel like I must have been living in a parallel universe from some of you. Who were all these people who thought it was ok to make bitchy comments about people's appearances 20 years ago?!

My friends and family have never been like that?!

No, she isn't. Don't be unpleasant. So many people's mothers are their first bullies, but that doesn't make it ok.

Your mum is clearly BU, but there is something joyless and depressing about all shapes and sizes feeling they have to squeeze into the unforgiving, long, shiny, one colour dresses that seems to be the only acceptable prom/formal style. It's easy to be kind when you are someone who rocks that look.

I think this leads to more comparison of body shapes, not less as there's nothing else to differentiaye them. If clothes were more fun again and people could buy things that suited them, there would be something else to say.

'It's generational' is a piss poor excuse for behaviour like this and a way to excuse people from being mean and closed to learning/moving forward. It's plain close mindedness.

Yes, the media was very focused on body and presentation previously, but we didn't all think it was right! And even those that did, surely haven't been living under a rock for twenty years.

My own DM is critical of others in this way and it all boils down to self esteem issues. OP keep looking outwards, you sound switched on and you don't deserve the direct and indirect criticism from your mum. Because don't forget, when she is criticising others to you, she is also telling you her expectations of YOU, that you shouldn't be bad or fat or anything else she commented on in your friends, and that's the real insidious stuff.

While you have a point, there is still no excuse for meanness. 'It's easy to be kind when....'. There is no reason not to 'be kind' about all figures. Plainly put, nobody should be commenting like that on someone else's body, especially not a mother about her daughter's friends.

Having two teenage daughters about your age I suspect that your Mum wasn't as mean as you describe her and you weren't as polite to her as you describe yourself. Of course it's not nice to make negative comments but is it because she finds it hard to compliment anyone or because she's trying to big you up by being negative anout them or because she actually didn't say anything negative at all (my teenagers have reacted very negatively before when I have commented positively about a celebrities appearance because according to them I shouldn't ever comment on anyone's appearance, either negatively or positively. In fact one of them regularly gets annoyed at me when I tell her she looks beautiful)? And is she annoyed that you are no longer friends with the smart girl who gets good grades because she wants you to be hard working at school and thought she was a good influence and isn't aware that she was horrible to you. Are your current friends less hard working at school and so she thinks they might be a bad influence?

All parents love their children and want the best for them. Nobody has the skill set to be able to parent perfectly, but most parents are good enough but will get things wrong sometimes. Part of growing up is learning to accept your parents as flawed humans and loving them anyway. If your Mum struggles with giving compliments then don't expect that from her. If she makes negative comments just ignore them and move the conversation on. That way you don't precipitate an argument where you both end up upset.

OP you sound lovely.
Commenting on people's appearance has never been good manners, not in front of them, not behind their backs.
Your mum saying you will make people hate you is odd. Does she mean she chooses to hate you for calling out her rudeness? Does she not think people might dislike cruel people?

This thread is staeting to offer a good insight into why so many young people have mental health issues...

My mum was definitely very negative about my friends' dresses, commenting on how they look fat and short in their dresses. I wish my mum would call me beautiful I would never be annoyed by that. She is aware of the things the smart girl says to me but she doesn't think that matters. My current friends are also very hard working but just not as good as exams as the smart girl. I can say that I try hard at school and its partly because I want my friends to be proud of me like we cheer each other on like that. Exams last term went really well!

I think one of the beautiful things about your generation is that its more common place to be accepting and supportive of others. And so it should be. And many of us older people look back at our childhoods were it was common place to be negative to people and we can see that was wrong and your generation has it right. Your mum unfortunately has not accepted this. Its likely someone was harsh with her when she was young so she can't see past this.
Stick with who you are. I am sure you are a lovely friend and your friends appreciate you.

Partly yes but I think she said that because I asked her if she would still say those nasty things if the girls in question weren't my friends. I had that question because she has a history of disliking the girls who are nice to me and I'm friends with.

Does your mum have many female friends? Or has she found friendships to be tricky? This is my first thought.

This is how I was brought up 30+ years ago. The negative comments about my friends, not comments to me. She thought she was building me up but thought knocking my friends was part of that. In turn I learn to criticise myself. I do think this was part of a wider culture as someone pointed out by some of the films being made at the time.
My mum has since learned the value of supportive female friendships and no longer does it. In turn, I've had to work out for myself what is important in a friendship and I've had to get some boundaries in places. Most importantly, the voice in my head is now my own, not my mum's.

If your mum was focusing on your friends poor behaviour towards you that would be different, but she seems to be making excuses for that.

You sound like you have good boundaries. Hang on to those.