Is this just getting ridiculous! UNIVERSAL CREDIT

[ChristmasTime2023]

So had a review with UC today phone call she stated she would up date the journal with what I need to provide.
A full length photo of myself standing outside my front door with the key in the lock!?
Then a letter from the children's school & nursery saying they attend there
A letter from the children's gp
Passport photos
Child benefit award letter
Birth certificates (they have had birth certificates before )

This isn't a new claim either I dont understand why gp letters are needed they want one for me and my partner too.

Also on the phone call asked who I use for my gas and electricity
Ive never been asked these things before seems strange to ask?
Anyone else had a review lately what did they ask for.

Partner works full time if that matters.

Yes you can, just not housing costs; support for mortgage interest after a certain period.

This is the thing. People say it's only if there's genuine concerns raised that you'll be hassled, but that isn't true. The levels of incompetence, in both the computer systems used and the staff themselves, is appallingly high.

Careful, your kindness is showing. 🙄

Honestly, the training for UC reviewers is woefully poor and completely lacking. The rules are also really strict on what can and cannot be accepted. If the reviewer lacks a bit of critical thinking or doesn't have a lot of life experience, it can lead to ridiculous questions like the ones you were asked. Unfortunately, there is no set list of questions, so reviewers are expected to make them up from the information given.

If there are no obvious suspicious transactions, it can lead to silly questions like what you were asked. The reviewers are on MW and graded on productivity. If they're found to not ask about something (even if it's something really obvious), it can lead to being marked down, which then leads to being called into a capability meeting. It's all really ridiculous.

@dizzydizzydizzy Do you receive financial support from the government due to your condition?

Yes

I understand a lot of posters are saying it feels like a lot of stress for their UC claim, but isn’t it the same as the things you have to do when applying for a job or working?

For example I needed an enhanced DBS for a job, for which you have to supply a specific set of documents. I had to fill in the details of all adults in my house. Then wait for the DBS form to be accepted (I had no reason to believe it wouldn’t be but even so it was still a relief when it came through) so that I could start the job. I accepted that this was a necessary and important safeguarding task, I didn’t complain. And it has to be renewed regularly.

When I started my current job I had to take in all sorts of forms of ID, GCSE certificates etc.

Previously I have worked for a government department and the identity checking and form filling is quite full-on.

I wasn’t offended that they ‘didn’t believe me’ who I was. I didn’t think ‘surely they could just look all of this up online’. I accepted that they have procedures to follow - to ensure that I have a legal right to work in the U.K. - that be sure I have not faked my identity to avoid disclosing criminal convictions - that I have not lied on my application form. If I wanted the job, that was the deal.

DD had similar when applying for temp work, she had to upload various documents and then do on online camera check of her face so that they could verify that the documents belonged to her.

Surely providing evidence for UC is similar, you are asking for financial support because your income isn’t high enough to support your living costs. Therefore, you need to provide evidence.

It’s an issue now that with AI and computers it’s so much easier for people to forge documents hence more checks. And due to GDPR documents can only be held for a specific purpose for a specific amount of time hence having to upload things again.

For example I needed an enhanced DBS for a job, for which you have to supply a specific set of documents. I had to fill in the details of all adults in my house. Then wait for the DBS form to be accepted (I had no reason to believe it wouldn’t be but even so it was still a relief when it came through) so that I could start the job. I accepted that this was a necessary and important safeguarding task, I didn’t complain. And it has to be renewed regularly.
When I started my current job I had to take in all sorts of forms of ID, GCSE certificates etc.

I wouldn't be able to provide those specific documents now - not passport, not driving licence, not paper bank statements, not paper electricity, gas or council tax bill. I was, fortunately, savvy enough to add my DBS to the update scheme so my employer can just look up the certificate and see there have been no changes.

Exam certificates, my ex burned them to stop me getting a job. I could chuck a load of money at all of the exam boards to search for my records, but it's a lot of money, as is getting a passport. If I weren't already in a job, I just wouldn't be able to do it.

I know I don't have the documents possible to pass an online dole office check as I used to claim years back and it failed, but because I still had a passport at that point, they decided it was probably me in front of them and not anybody else. And as an aside, I only had that because 9 and a half years previously, the headteacher at my kids' school countersigned as a favour despite only being in the role for 6 months (in exchange for me coming in to facilitate a big activity where the booked person had cancelled at the last minute).

I've also had an NHS job offer withdrawn because my previous employer didn't have a company domain for his email, despite having payslips, as it didn't meet their rules for references - and the employer before that didn't count as it was outside their five year cutoff for references.

I did, however, get a job somewhere else. If it were failing to provide information for UC, with no money and no job (and no money to keep the phone and internet going, never mind pay for documentation), it would have been completely different, as you can't just claim from somewhere else instead.

So you don’t have any bank accounts or pay any bills?

Not with paper bills or statements, no. Which is the usual requirement, despite the country being largely digital.

No I don’t get paper statements either but you can download them and print them.

No. I've never been asked to provide a full-length photo of myself next to the sign for my street when I've applied for a job. I live alone, so that was impossible.

It was the general principle of posters saying it was ridiculous providing so much documentation and I was pointing out that it’s often the same for jobs as well.

It's not the "so much documentation" it's the impossible documentation. Plus this is on top of being autistic, DH passing away, being evicted because he passed away, all of which UC knew because I'd told them.

Well that's what the articles I've read have said, but it is likely to be more complicated than that. It completely explains the far more far reaching security checks.

I understand a lot of posters are saying it feels like a lot of stress for their UC claim, but isn’t it the same as the things you have to do when applying for a job or working?

Many of the people claiming UC aren't fit for work. So can you see now how expecting them to do this stuff causes them harm?

Those who are fit for work often have their hands full, like most people do generally, unless they're rich and can afford to outsource all their daily hassles.

When you do tasks like this to look for a new job, the outcome is hopefully a new job, it's personal choice. If you can't do some of those things, you either stay with your current job or look for a job elsewhere, with less stringent checks. If you're a jobseeker without a job, you've got time and energy for the faffing around.

When you do tasks like this "for work" you're doing them in working hours, the stress of it is part of the stress of working. You're not doing stressful things for work in what is supposed to be your stress-free downtime.

Claiming UC adds to people's stress. When the stuff they're asking for is pointless or unnecessary, that means putting people through unnecessary stress.

For a start they have no rights to question what people spend their money on. Only rights to query suspicious transactions and potential undisclosed accounts. In the examples someone gave above, exactly what that poster plans to do with her Christmas savings into her (totally transparent and previously disclosed) savings account is none of DWP business, only whether her savings takes her over the limit or not. Neither is it their business what her Sheila's Wheels insurance payment was for. This type of questioning is degrading, discriminatory, a violation of privacy and generally treating claimants like second class citizens. It's also illegal. All of that is pretty stressful to be on the receiving end of. It's all totally unnecessary. If a workplace was treating you like that you could at worst leave, at best you could take them to tribunal and win.

I could, because I could email them to my work account and print them out there (not that they'd be accepted, as they're just a printout that could be knocked up in ten minutes). But it would be a lot harder for somebody who actually needs to make a claim because they have no job, no money and no printer, ink and paper knocking around at home already. Or the money to try and find a Boots with a photo printing booth (if they still exist?).

Well I've never been asked at random by my employer, when I've been in post for years already, to provide photos of myself inside my house or by a street sign, to give letters from my GP or my kids' schools, under pain of having my salary stopped and for no reason, or at least none I'm allowed to know.

Yes but I have been asked to complete training courses and send the certificates to HR. I have to read documents and confirm i have done so. If I have an appointment I have to send the appointment letter. If I have time off sick I have to fill in a form and have a back to work meeting. There are annual leave forms, TOIL forms. Sometimes new regulations are brought in that we have to agree to. (Eg social media use). If I don’t do these things then I might not get full pay or would be subject to disciplinary .

Anyway you are completely missing the point of my post. You are being obtuse. I am not saying that in a job you are asked for the same things as for UC. However, I am saying in a job you also have a burden of documentation/evidence that you have to provide in order to receive your salary. If I don’t follow the rules, I don’t keep my job.

They're completely different things. There's no valid comparison.

If you look a wee bit further on I posted a comment breaking it all down. It is rather complex!

I see what you're saying but in a previous life I have worked in roles requiring a dbs, I've also had to deal with HMRC, do my own accounts, navigate government portals relating to my roles, register with the ICO, etc etc.

None of those gave me a fraction of the stress and faff as dealing with my UC review last year.

I used to juggle work and caring for my child whose has complex special needs and advocating for him. I much preferred that to relying on UC but his needs increased with age sadly. It's such a precariously vulnerable position for us to be in, and I do think the review process needs some fine tuning.

Again, for some of those at the back.

UC is claimed by a lot of people who DO work.

So they could have all the job form tedium AND still have to upload inane documents for UC.

And again I say, if those are the hoops you have to jump through to get the money you need/want then it has to be done. There’s always the option of NOT claiming I suppose…

And it's fair for OP to find the whole thing frustrating and difficult.
Where would you draw the line? Make it so complicated that those who need it (who are often the most vulnerable in our society) they just don't bother.

I watched I, Daniel Blake for the second time last night. Have you seen it? Do you agree with how the system works?