AIBU to not understand how "school refusers" are a thing?

[Idontunderstandmodernlife]

There seems to be a lot of parents that have children that they simply can't get to go to school no matter what they do - these children are often called "school refusers". Parents say they have done absolutely everything to get their child into school but nothing works.

I hate to be that "in my day" person but I simply don't get where these "school refusers" have come from because they simply didn't exist a decade or 15 years ago. Kids just went to school. I never knew of a child that simply didn't turn up most of the time when I was in school? now there seems to be one in every class

What has changed that parents are now finding it impossible to get their child to school? Have schools got that much worse? are parents more lenient? are children more forceful? has children's mental health declined? what is it?

I think the behaviour is more accepted now. Children rule the roost.

I had a temp job probably about 1999 or 1998 in an education social work department, dealing with the kids whose attendance was so poor that they had social work involvement.

One of my jobs was to come in and get the messages off the answer machine, all the parents whose children were refusing to go to school that morning. To normal, mainstream high schools.

Lucky you that you don't have one.

Out of interest, what was the reason for your non-attendance? Did you just hate school?

I disagree. My child with EBSA does well on going in when she can. But sometimes she just can't. I push her more than I think is sensible, but if I push her further it leads to burn out. Too many times I've avoided a day or two off when she really needs it for her anxiety. It prolongs the pain. She had some time off earlier this week. She then went back refreshed and was more able to cope.

Who didn't give it a try? 😂
There's a huge difference between that and kids who aren't NT, though.

I remember meeting a woman about 25 years ago whose daughter went to a ‘hospital school’ because she couldn’t cope in school.

I never ever ever thought it would happen to us. DD had almost perfect attendance in primary, I would say she wasn’t actually happy going but we made her.
She made it through year 7 before cracks started to show and then I did the worst thing…I kept forcing her. Until the point she completely broke and hardly attended school at all for 2 years, then only part time.

She would literally sit and cry all day. So no cutting off the wifi didn’t help. She desperately wanted to be jn but couldn’t manage, even when she did she would breakdown afterwards.
So obviously now we know she’s ASD. She’s in college full time because it’s quieter, she can wear her own clothes, headphones, she can walk out of class if it’s bad, and the disruptive element have gone. She still sometimes breaks down afterwards or doesn’t feel able to go in. But generally much better.

School is not like it was 20/30/40 years ago. It was much quieter, less audio visual stuff (a particular trigger for DD), less bad behaviour and much less pressure.

And clearly you were very lucky to feel that way. My son would sit and cry all day in a dark room seeing absolutely no one rather than attend school. Nothing to do at home is not enough to help the children who really struggle

Agree it is not the whole cause and there are many factors, though the impact of not going out as much remains I think. The other thing was the culture created by those in government of the time that rules didn't apply to some people such as in number 10. Which added to the way the education system had been going for years, starting with Michael Gove driving many out of teaching.

As an educator I think that generally there is a vast expectation that children and young people WILL fulfil their academic potential. This means that some children and young people who would have been allowed to chill in an easy group because they were a bit slow or awkward, will now be pushed hard to work with the group of the same academic ability.

In many ways this is good, and we certainly don't want to go back to anyone with some lower capabilities in any area, being expected to more or less fail academically. However the trade off maybe that someone with real difficulties (whether acknowledged or not), will be expect to go all out to keep up with those of their academic potential which may burn them out or cause them to be somewhere they are bullied for being less able or less quick, which could lead to school anxiety.

Schools too are under immense pressure to keep up with results. Again this often means that they will push students with academic potential incredibly hard, even if this does no good to their mental health. Linked with this, a lot of schools will be very reluctant to let children do less. For example I, with mild Cerebral Palsy have 8 GCSEs 4Bs and 4Cs. For my school 10 GCSEs was normal, but I simply couldn't cope with 10. There have been several Mumsnet articles recently about school being very reluctant to let kids drop GCSEs - for these children, burnout and school refusal, maybe what they get instead of less GCSEs.

They absolutely do exist because I was one. I was at secondary school from 1990-1995 and I was barely there for years 10 & 11. I used to tell my mum I was ill so that I couldn’t go and when she used to tell me to go I’d just refuse and lay in my bed (what was she going to do?) or I’d get ready and just bunk off for the day. Very working class area and the school didn’t care, I was due to start year 11 as usual in September 1994 and I actually didn’t have my first day back until January 1995, I just remember my history teacher saying he thought I had left!

Now my 11 year old hates school, she hated primary and now hates secondary but I am managing to get her there most weeks, I can see it getting increasingly more difficult though as she gets older.

Yes, I do. Some people have been very helpful.

Yes, there are many kids who are part of sports teams that travel to play sports.Some kids get to travel the world doing competitions. Usually the school makes accommodations for their education. This isn’t permissive parenting.

Unfortunately, this isnt the case I was talking about. Three days off school, when they could have played in the snow at the weekend. They had access to snow at home. They just wanted to travel. This is not a skiing family, with the only chance of the year to catch a few days of ski time. It was nice pictures for insta.

I’ve worked in education for 30 years school refusers have always existed. I think one thing that has changed is the drive and expectations for higher attendance rates. When I was at secondary school my attendance sat at around 80% and no one battered an eye lid. Whereas now it would be a huge deal. I think if I couldn’t have gotten away with a low attendance I would have refused to go at all. School was not somewhere I could be for 💯 of the time!

School refusal among teachers has massively increased at the same time school refusal among children has.
40000 teacher school refusers a year, with a third of new teachers refusing school within 5 years of qualifying.
Maybe it was poor parenting when they were children that turned them into quitters.

I don’t think it’s a question that has just one answer, it’s a combination of things really.

Anxiety has become more common, I’m sure it was an issue 25 years ago or whatever but I do think it’s more prominent now and essentially that covers a large amount of school refusers, in different ways but the bottom line is anxiety. If I had to state just a few of the biggest factors for that I’d go with

1. the fact schools are very performance driven now with more pressure than before, I’m in my late 20’s so my primary school days are really not ages and ages ago but it has changed massively even since then when I look at my younger cousins, nieces/nephews and friends children in school now. So many more tests, so much more academic pressure especially in primary school, it’s not easy.

2. Links to above, but schools have a lot less “free” time now. When I was in primary school (and as I say I’m not talking 40 years ago, early 2000’s) we had a morning break, an hour long lunch break and then an afternoon break . I have a nephew and a niece currently at the same primary school I went to and they now only have a “break” in the morning which is a chance to eat an apple while reading a book in the classroom at desk and then a 30 minute lunch break 2 classes at a time. The days are more intense than they used to be, we only ever had to concentrate really for about 2 hours max at a time before a good break for fresh air etc, for children than struggle with concentration, overwhelm, overstimulation the current schedule of school is a lot.

3. Impact of Covid, as others have said, is ongoing and we will be seeing for years. Not just kids who were impacted during their school time but the younger children too, who instead of spending those crucial first years of life sitting in busy cafes, being pushed around busy shops, attending baby groups, toddler groups, soft plays, spending time with extended family and friends etc in that development window were instead just in the calm and quiet of their homes. Lots of adults struggled to rejoin society after that nevermind children, how many WFH threads do we see now of people
   who used to work full time in an office but now can’t even face 1 day?

4. ND & unmet needs in school, undoubtedly a good chunk. Children in the wrong setting with the wrong support.

It’s not about preferring being at home, it’s about being so terrified of being at school that you literally cannot get them in, or that forcing them makes the whole thing worse and ruins their trust in you.

The pp's analogy works because if it was the other way round people would be really concerned at what was going on at home to cause this extreme behaviour. As it is when school is the problem no one gives a shit, just make ignorant comments about the parents.

Yes, you can physically manhandle a child into school, my austic adhd child would starve themselves, self harm, wrecking the house, and have a full on mental health breakdown, as they have had in the past. But silly me, I should simply set boundaries and carry them in when they aren't well enough to actually go in. Why didn't I think of that?

I was a school refuser or as I would have been named back then - truant.

I’m so glad reading these that my dad didn’t force me - I mean I don’t know how as he couldn’t have forced me really!
I was happy to do school work at home, I wanted to learn. I just was so badly bullied I refused to go back to that school, then thought any school would be the same. My dad thankfully didn’t see the point in forcing a self harming teenager into school to be bullied some more

going to the PRU took the pressure off with no uniform and a small class and I went back to another school eventually and then carried on to college and university

No one screams at our school. It’s not necessary. I only have experience of secondary school, so can’t comment on younger pupils. Our biggest issue is actually non attendance in school. So pupils who prefer to walk the corridors etc. There is now a huge clampdown, so these pupils will be spending time in detention, to make up for missed time etc. Not easy for staff. It would be easier to let them stroll around school all day.

In Year 11 my attendance was 65%
Nowadays that would be classed as school refusal. In 2008 there was maybe one meeting with my head of house.
It’s not a new thing.

It has always been a thing. I refused to go to school as an undiagnosed autistic girl in the late 90s. I got a 'school phobia' diagnosis instead and lots of attempts to force me to go in. They didn't work because no matter what my parents took away from me or threatened me with, the thought of school was worse. At best I'd leave the house, pretending to go to school, and come home at the appropriate time. School was a completely unsuitable environment for me and my stress levels there were absolutely intolerable - worse than anything I've experienced in adult life. I didn't know how to articulate that properly at the time.

My dad refused to go to school in the 70s but he slipped under the radar due to the family moving house and was able to start work in a market at about 14. His younger brother also refused to attend, but truancy officers picked up on him and he was eventually sent to live with relatives abroad until he reached the school leaving age. Their parents were strict and there was no internet or social media back then. School just doesn't suit all children - just as if all adults were forced into the same workplace, some would thrive there and others would be miserable, no matter what the job was.

@Peridoteagei can only think your post has been written to simply trigger a reaction?

I don't understand your point about screaming then?

Why are your pupils so miserable at school, sounds like it's something you're failing at?