to think that good skincare and "tweakments" do make a big difference?

[frostedcup]

I'm in my late 40's and have for a long time resisted getting sucked into expensive skincare products, devices and treatments as a way to look better, have smoother skin etc. I know a lot of women in my age group as well as some younger and some older and so I feel like I do see the difference between those who have been like me i.e. fairly basic in their skincare to those who pay a lot for expensive products and get treatments. I know genetics do play a role but I am talking about women in my close family, women I grew up with who I know were doing the same damage to their looks in their youth that I was and yet their use of retinol, tretinoin, botox, face peels and so on seems to have completely slowed down the way that the damage has shown up on their faces in that it essentially doesn't.

I have been using some basic skincare for years such as cerave cleaners and moisturisers and I do use SPF most of the time. I would occasionally try a serum , toner or face mask but not consistently but last year I did invest in some higher end skincare and a tretinoin prescription and my skin is looking so much better and its really boosted my confidence. I have some forehead lines that I don't think topical skincare will address and so I have decided to get some botox in that area and am also considering a peel or dermal needling as well as an LED mask.

I always worried that botox would make me look overdone but when I look at the women I know who get it they just look better in my opinion. I do know one younger woman who looks a bit strange at certain angles but I believe that is down to filler use as I know she has that. Overall I think botox makes a big positive difference to the women I know have had it.

I do worry that by participating in getting botox and other skin treatments that I am perpetuating a kind of pressure on women to follow suit. I think in some ways that is what has happened to me really that I got fed up of being on the other side of that divide of those who have it and those who haven't or perhaps it doesn't really matter and we all just do our own thing.

I’m in my 40s and have been getting Botox for about a year now, every 4 months or so for forehead and crows feet, and have started using Korean skincare. My skin is amazing, it glows.

I couldn’t really care less what anyone thinks of it.

It’s sad when people get so hung up on looking young , when confidence and happiness comes from how you look

@HotdogMacaroniCheese I do think that it is perhaps just best to focus on how it makes you happy if you do it and not to worry to much about it in a deeper way. I think I just tend to look at things to a critical lens and can't help but see the wider impact of personal choices, especially one's that spread though a group, I just wonder about it that is all.

Just like the previous poster, I don't really care what anyone else thinks about what treatments I do. We could take this to extreme - not wear makeup, not use deodorant or perfume, not dress neatly, not brush our hair... But, rebelling against "pressure on women" is a job in itself and I am not sure what's more energy-demanding.
I am in my 40s with very good genetics. I haven't really used any consistent skincare at all until very recently because my genetics allowed me. As I approach menopause, this is no longer the case. I don't spend massive amounts of money on expensive products but I did recently invested in a good Korean range. I have Botox once every 9 months. I experimented with various combinations and settled on just treating one area between my brows. Although, I am considering doing something to lift the corners of my mouth as I recently noticed I am starting to look a bit grumpy with age-related changes o that area.
I have a tiny amount of lip filler probably once every 2-3 years to restore lost volume.
I don't want to look younger. I just want to look good for my age. Which I do.

@itsthetea I do see your point but we are human animals and our looks do matter in society and in how we see ourselves, I agree it would be better if that weren't so but I unfortunately it is. Older women I think are more visible and vibrant than ever in the culture and I wonder how much of that is down to our ability to hold off some of the worst ravages of time?

I also think that confidence isn't just from looking younger it just stops people pigeon holing you and your work as in that older bracket and so you get a fairer shake of the stick workwise which brings its own boost in confidence.

Again though my question is when women go down this road and get these treatments does it further entrench inequalities for other women?

I agree with you OP that (done well) it does work.

I also agree it’s annoying the bar has now changed. So many women are having these things done that those who don’t will look worse by comparison. So I agree it isn’t just a personal decision, it impacts others too.

I haven’t done anything yet (mid 40s) but may start. It’s more not having got round to it and not knowing where to go, than a principled decision.

But it’s not just women, although there is and always has been pressure on women to look younger. Male grooming is huge now.

@minipie Yes that is exactly my point, if even a quarter of the women you know are getting these things done you start to feel more haggard in comparison and suddenly moisturiser and a bit of make up isn't enough to scrub up well and so if you do it you do just increase the pressure on the next person and so on. However it is a personal choice and I don't think it's wrong to get it done.

I have absolutely no interest in botox etc but I don't think you should feel the slightest bit guilty about getting it or any other treatments done. The only concern I'd have is if you don't really want to do anything but you feel pushed into it, for fear of being seen as ugly or being overlooked/treated badly. If it would genuinely make you feel better and be a positive step, go for it. It may be the case that you're subtly perpetuating inequality but life's too bloody short to worry that much. In a world that contains Jeffrey Epstein and his cronies, I don't think you have much to feel bad about.

admittedly I spend a lot of money on skincare. I have Botox once every 9 months and then monthly treatments ranging from skin boosters, hydra facials, chemical peels, laser and Morpheus. I always go to the same place and I have a plan for the next 6 months.

on a daily basis I use future renew (boots) serum, balm cleanser, day and night cream and alternate vit c and hypotonic acid. This is prob a mid range but I’ve used high cost products and find this is just as good, if not better.

My skin looks better now than it did in my 20’s and 30’s.

I know loads of women who have had botox, some even in their very early thirties. In my opinion the problem is that it ever so slightly changes people's features, in a way that makes it very easy to see who has had it. People end up looking similar somehow, and they still mostly show their age. So it's not something I want to have (for now, anyway!).
Looking good at a certain age is not just about the face. Keeping slim and fit (the hardest part!) is just as important as preventing skin damage with sun cream and not smoking etc. It's possible to look good without having invasive treatments. I find the pressure to inject botox and fillers quite depressing, especially when I see young women fall for it. It's sad to see how they don't realise how beautiful they already are! So yes, I think there are certain beauty trends that definitely need to be resisted.

I'm not sure. I've been watching the Supermodels documentary on Apple TV and Christy Turlington - who has had no work done - looks way better than the other models. Granted, she probably uses expensive skincare but has had no tweakments apparently.

I don’t use expensive skincare but do use retinol, my skin looks great. I also use a collagen wand that makes me glow.

I don't think it makes people look younger necessarily but it does tend to make people look more groomed and healthy looking. So "better", yes.

I would say I don't mind looking my age but I want to look good for my age!

Yes. Its a very unpopular view on here, and for understandable reasons, but skilfully and lightly executed procedures are absolutely game changing when it comes to addressing the signs of aging. Botox can smooth crows feet and 11s, filler in the right places replaces lost fat and subtly lifts skin to the place it was before gravity did its work. The main problem with procedures is when they're not skillfully and lightly executed, and obviously these are the ones people see and form judgement on.
I'm not overly convinced about expensive skincare. I think a routine of moisturising, hydration and sun protection makes a big difference, but its the ingredients, vit C, retinol, hyalaronic acid that do the job, and they can be found in inexpensive products.
Good diet, excercise, fresh air and sleep all make a difference too.

I'm 46 and don't know anyone who has any of this stuff done. I mean as far as I know. I don't take anywhere near that much of my face let alone anyone else's.

There's a couple of school mums I see where it's very obvious they've had lip fillers and look, to me, completely ridiculous. But as to anyone's skincare routine it isn't a subject that has once come up in conversation.

I have no idea if other women my age look noticeably smoother or more glowing or younger than they are or what age I look.

I agree.

I don't give much of a shit what people do to their own faces.

But I think being slim, wearing clothes that suit you, having good posture and exuding confidence are much more youthful and beautiful than just having nice skin.

I'm always baffled by women who spend tonnes to achieve that ubiquitous, frozen, shiny forehead look but then walk with their shoulder slumped in shit clothes about five stone overweight.

No. There will always be inequality between women based on how attractive we are considered. Because physically attractive women all other things being equal, are treated better and valued more highly than plainer ones. Refusing to indulge in any measures to increase your own attractiveness will do absolutely nothing to change this on a societal level.
If all women refused to do it, all that would happen is that the pool of women who got better treatment and were more highly valued for their looks would be smaller, as only the naturally young and beautiful would be in it. But it would exist just the same.
Treatments and procedures give women the option to be part of the 'treated better because they're attractive group' for longer, or to access it when their natural looks would not have been enough.
The fact the group exists at all is all sorts of wrong. But we didn't create it and realistically we won't change it. We just choose whether to try and be in it or ignore it. Either way, looks based inequality will carry on.

I think both are true. Yes you are part of contributing to the rise of such things and pressure on women, and yes you should just do your own thing. I think it’s a shame women feel the need to do this but equally I’m happy for you that you have more confidence and feel good.

I’m 45- happy, healthy and confident with or without Botox BUT I do love three stress once every 6 months. There’s been times I haven’t been able to afford it and it didn’t impact my personality but I just like it.
i also use a lot of skincare… but I eat well and exercise so not sure if that’s why i have good skin. Botox doesn’t make me look younger and that’s not my aim. I very much look my age- however it makes me look fresher and less tired

I think luck, lifestyle, health, stress and bone structure etc come into it as well. I don’t know many people that get Botox, but the ones I do know don’t look good at all. One has had permanent make up added too- it’s a weird looking combination as she had it done twenty years ago (ish). Don’t live in London and I know these women have it done at local salons they aren’t spending much, perhaps that’s why.

I would never get it done, I’m too scared. Power to anyone that wants too, I don’t care but it’s not for me. I can still recall the real housewives season where Kyle had a freaky eye because of Botox and she has all the money /contacts money can buy.

I wear spf and have since I was a teen, plus Liz Earle cleanser. Not heard of Korean skincare!

I totally agree, before I caved in to all this I was a lot more critical of it and pointing out the downsides but in reality if the injector is good at what they do then it doesn't look bad or unnatural at all. The women I know who have botox I couldn't tell just by looking, they still have movement and expression but less lines and wrinkles. I am lucky that these women I am close to and have been happy to tell me who they get botox from!

I agree about the other things such as exercise, sleep, quality food and in my case HRT but I do think skincare helps quite a bit for example I started using Allies of Skin Copper Peptides and biologique recherche p50 as part of my skincare and the difference was incredible. I tried a lot of cheaper Hyaluronic acids but they just ball up on my skin and didn't sink in but the Niod fractionated HA or even the estee lauder advanced repair serum work really well for my skin but I think that is more of a personal thing as I know lots of people love cheaper HA serums and I wish they did work for me.

I do somewhat get this as when I look at the cast of friends today I think Lisa Kudrow looks best because she still looks like herself but then she does also get some botox and looking at Christy Turlington she is still beautiful but her skin could look even better without it actually altering her appearance. She obviously doesn't want to which is fine and I do respect her for that.

I wash my face in the shower in the morning and then moisturise. I'm mid 40s but people often assume I'm mid-30s as my skin is good. I wear make up, but not a lot.

But... I have always worn moisturiser with a sun screen, never used a sun bed, and rarely smoked. My mum lived abroad and sunbathed all the time and her skin is not great!

I guess this is where the divide comes in. I would never judge a person based on what they look like, and I would not be friends with someone who judged me. They're just not my sort of people. In fact, all my friends are the "down to earth" type who would never modify their body as they just don't feel the need. Being happy is far more attractive than some botox. And I guess that comes with being confident and/or having friends who love you for just being you.

I do think there is more risk where filler is involved. I am sure lots of people have good work you don't really see but there is a lot of bad work out there. I also think the high street injectable salons we have all over the place in this country are probably doing a lot of harm to to young women especially.