To ask you to swerve vacations abroad on airplanes

[Happyone99]

Inspired by https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5433252-to-ask-you-to-swerve-shein-temu?page=24

As mentioned above, I personally don’t use Shein or Temu because they ARE terrible. However, why only change bad things lower income people happen to be involved with, rather than starting with things higher income people are involved with

Slave labour and poor working conditions are indeed terrible. So is the climate crisis, exacerbated by rich people flying on airplanes for vacations, and poor people in low-lying countries like Bangladesh suffer worst environmental consequences

Who are responsible for the most emissions and who are suffering the most?

Ration air-miles for everyone? You can save them up for a longer journey. I do think it’s easy for the rich to tell poor people how to spend their money while flying around in their private jets.

Unfortunately, ferries generate high emissions – even higher per passenger kilometre than flights. Almost all passenger ferries run on fossil fuels. One important factor for their emissions is the speed of the ferry. A high-speed ferry generates much higher emissions than a normal ferry (from here https://travelandclimate.org/train-car-or-plane)

It really is pointless virtue signalling to say we only travel by ferry.

I can’t remember the exact figures but it is something like the top 10% of flyers are responsible for 90% of the emissions. A family taking one foreign holiday a year are not the problem.
I generally take the ferry to Europe and then drive. In the last 9 years I have flown 4 return journeys to Europe. My reduction in flying has made no difference to global emissions.
You are not unreasonable to ask but you’re asking the wrong people.

@crackofdoom

i don’t want to go to France. I want to go to the Caribbean…even if it were possible to do that without flying I wouldn’t want to as it would take ages

I think quite a lot about this and related subjects. And I try and live with my values.

I don't buy UPFs on a regular basis (and by irregular I mean maybe one once a month or two months).

My house isn't stocked with loads of half used shampoos, conditioners, shower gels, etc.

I don't tend to buy clothes made with manmade fibres (because they're generally yuk, not because I'm religious!). I even make my own clothes every now and again. I also don't have loads of clothes just for the sake of having loads and buying something new every week or month.

And so on, I could continue, but it would be boring. I think you get the gist: I care about these things.

However, what I do do is drive a petrol car. My next car may be electric or a hybrid, but right now I drive all over the place using petrol. I don't tend to drive short distances, though, which is a small plus point.

I used to fly a lot, particularly to Europe, but many places it's a lot more pleasant by train, I hate the faff and waiting around at airports. But if I were going to Australia I'd fly as the steam ships no longer run. I've flown to Tenerife, this year I'll be flying too to another island with no direct ferry route.

I'm pondering flying to the Balkans as the train takes 24 hours or so. I don't mind that particularly, but I imagine the vast majority would prefer to just get there and start their holiday!

My thoughts about cars and aeroplanes are that they're necessary for a lot of things if you don't want to spend an inordinate length of time getting to places.

And I think telling people for whom a holiday abroad is a yearly or two yearly (or whatever) treat to forego that and either stay at home or go by a much more expensive and lengthier means of transport isn't very helpful.

Having said that, the types of people I can't stand are those who fly a lot, pay to offset the emissions, then lecture others about the problems with flying!

We could do with fewer planes in the air, but until on the ground (or water) transport infrastructure is there to provide alternatives, it's not going to happen.

Ferries are more polluting/worse emissions than modern planes! Most run on diesel ffs.

The stat is that 80% of the world's population has never flown.

Yes. All this and more. I dry my clothes outside the majority of the time. It’s the Scottish mammy in me. Use eco laundry sheets where possible. Clean with essential oils, hot water, vinegar. Grow veg and refuse to use any glyphosate pesticides or weed killers. Use local fruit/fish mongers. Seasonal ingredients. We don’t use any ready meals. Public transport commutes. Charity shops. Anyone telling me not to fly to Spain/Italy/Poland annually can absolutely piss right off.

So long haul flights also out i guess?

Well I haven’t seen the original post. But I work in marketing for UHNWIs and they are flying all over for no reason. I’m talking either a plane or helicopter at least a couple of times a month, several “proper” holidays and swapping between houses they own on different continents. This is not even Richard Branson level wealth and there are far more people at this level than you’d think (I’m excluding people who travel for work). So I wouldn’t begrudge a normal person one or two plane holidays a year. But I think if we can afford “better” than Shein or Temu then we should spend a bit more for more ethically made items.

But in general this whole topic is like Colgate telling me to turn off the tap while I brush my teeth or Tango asking me to separate the sleeve from the plastic bottle. They are the ones creating the pollution, not the everyday person who just wants a product

I do all im able to to offset any flights I take.

Until China, Russia, India and the USA do something meaningful about their emissions. Why the fuck should I make my life less enjoyable because those fuckers won't play the game.

I’m not going to stop my one plane journey a year. It’s not my problem to sort out climate friendly planes. There are plenty of people with plenty of money who could sort it out. So they need to crack on and do it. We’ve moved on from sending kids up chimneys and smog so thick you can’t see your hand in front of your face, we’ll move on from fuel guzzling planes at some point too. In the meantime it’s not me that’s the problem.

I think it's a bit pointless to eschew an annual holiday when so many people fly and consume so much. I try to break it up by some years driving into Europe instead (with an EV) or just staying in the UK. One year we went by coach. If trains were cheaper I'd use them a lot more too.

I'm 50 and a good friend of mine the same age has stage 4 cancer. Even if she gets through it, travel tends to be pretty expensive or impossible insurance-wise when you have been seriously ill. It makes me think YOLO. Plus DDs (20 and 16) still want to come with us, in future they may just have their own plans.

My DM died last year. I'm glad we had all our little trips together over the last few years (some of them involving flying).

YABU.

Firstly, not being American I don't go on 'vacations'. I go on holidays.

Secondly, the emissions produced by my occasional short-haul holidays on budget airlines are trivial in the grand scheme of things.

I'll give up my abroad holidays if everyone on this thread gives up their cars.

I hardly ever drive and I think people who set up their lives so they have to use cars multiple times per day (drive kids to school, drive to the shop etc) are VU. Far more sustainable to build lifestyles around walking everywhere.

I thought the carbon footprint of a ferry passenger was much lower than a plane passenger, in most cases

Bloody Hell. I've got a sodding long walk to Florida ahead of me then.

What percentage of flights are freight versus passenger only?

OP, do you eat meat? Do you keep pets?
We all have different ways of cutting down our carbon footprint.

At the same time, why shouldn't people in China have the same standard of living as here and why shouldn't they grow their economy?

Given my son lives in Oz, yes my joy is important.

I think there's a balance to be had to be honest. People need to see more of the world to be more aware of it and issues facing others. That's a good thing socially as if you want to raise awareness of environmental impact you need people to feel more connected with global neighbours.

I also don't believe that my one flight every other year is in any way equitable with multi-millionaires who have private aircraft and holiday multiple times a year or unnecessary business travel. I save VERY hard to be able to afford to go, having to travel by boat would be completely unrealistic due to where I live never mind completely out of budget.

There are huge companies that are destroying the earth and environment and are getting encouraged by certain world leaders to do it. That is what we need to be boycotting. Many countries rely on tourism as a key economy factor, if people couldn't travel by plane many people simply couldn't travel. There's also a lot of evidence to suggest that shipping is very detrimental to marine wildlife. All we can do really, is be mindful of the impact we have on the world and try to live sustainably where we can across the year and make choices to support climate impact projects where we can. But the focus really needs to be on larger companies in my mind.

YABU

The word is HOLIDAY not VACATION.

I fly back and forth to the US regularly.

I haven’t been to mainland Europe in probably 15 years. Have no interest in going back either. I used to visit Greece, Italy, France, Spain, Germany and Portugal, plus the islands fairly often as a young adult and never fell in love with any of them the way I fell in love with the US. So the tunnel and a ferry would be useless to me.

Am I rich? Not at all. I’m comfortable enough. Our household income for 2A and one adult child who doesn’t live with us full time is £120000 a year, so around £7000 a month after tax, NI and pension contributions. So I might not be who you are talking about anyway.

But I take long haul flights around 6 - 8 times a year. I feel this is lower because we stay in the US for extended periods. Never outstaying our visas obviously.

Would I give up my lifestyle? Absolutely not. Never in a bajillion years. I accept I live pretty selfishly (you only live once of course) and as my time in America is far superior to my time in the UK, it is not something I would willingly give up.

If I was forced, I would have to leave the UK I guess. It’s stifling enough here, without stopping people getting to the places they actually want to be.

Christ on a bike, how are people still not getting this.

This isn’t a post about air travel. It’s a post about classism. The OP is asking if people have the right to tell others not to buy from cheap online companies whilst enjoying air travel themselves because both things are ‘bad’. Point being, it’s easy for people who are privileged enough to afford to buy more expensive locally-sourced things to preach about the environment and human rights issues etc while enjoying things that also affect the environment.

Sorry OP but it was getting excruciating 😖

On the language of the OP.

Does this mean its ok for Americans to go on vacation by plane as long as its not abroad?

This is important given distances in Europe are the same as distances in the US...