To ask you to swerve vacations abroad on airplanes

[Happyone99]

Inspired by https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5433252-to-ask-you-to-swerve-shein-temu?page=24

As mentioned above, I personally don’t use Shein or Temu because they ARE terrible. However, why only change bad things lower income people happen to be involved with, rather than starting with things higher income people are involved with

Slave labour and poor working conditions are indeed terrible. So is the climate crisis, exacerbated by rich people flying on airplanes for vacations, and poor people in low-lying countries like Bangladesh suffer worst environmental consequences

Who are responsible for the most emissions and who are suffering the most?

Travelling to Australia to visit my son, or vice versa, would be.....interesting, shall we say, without flying. And not everyone has all the time in the world to travel across land, even in Europe.

So, in addition to not flying @Happyone99 , are you prepared to:

• give up driving a private car (of any sort, diesel or electric)
• bear no children.

Private cars use up huge amounts of irreplaceable resource. especially land - for roads, car parks etc, before we even start on the cost of manufacture and fuelling - whatever fuel is used.

Every child born into the developed west uses 4 times the resource of a child born in the global South.

Personally, I think OPs like the one for this thread have been hoodwinked into thinking their small sacrifices, and preaching to others about similar sacrifices, make a difference.

The real culprits are huge multinationals and their use of international capital and finance to overproduce in the cheapest places.

We don’t holiday abroad but I can’t think of one other family I know that aren’t abroad at least once a year.

Hard agree

i would add house building to this on green space that we clearly need to help with climate change?

unfortunately not using a car is a no go for me as a rural community nurse, I will always need a car as will many many others to do their jobs

I haven’t flown since 2018 but I would like to start seeing more of the world again and this may be flying or it may be other modes depending on where we are going

I go abroad all the time- at least once a year, more if I can swing it. Only last year visited Amsterdam, Germany, Romania, Budapest, Bulgaria, France. Currently planning a cheeky Easter break to France/Italy.

Haven't flown since 2018.

I believe we should all do what we can, within reason. I am happy to reduce meat consumption, choose sustainable alternatives to common brands, buy second hand, walk instead of drive, use public transport etc etc.

I do fly 3/4 times per year (return trips) but we have family abroad and visit them, as well as quality family time in the sun, and I do try to travel light. I am not prepared to sacrifice these trips when there are private jets left, right and centre and big conglomerates doing whatever they please.

What will be cheeky about it?

That's great but it all very much depends on how much time you’ve got for a holiday. I can usually manage a week max & that’s fine for France or Belgium but for somewhere like Southern Italy or Norway, getting train & / or ferry both ways would really eat into the time.

Exactly I want to get there as quickly as possible

It's pretty weird that you think only the rich go on holidays abroad.

I only get a week max child free, too. So, sometimes I only get to spend 4 or 5 days at my destination, when I have a holiday on my own. That sucks, but it's not down to the mode of transport I use, it's down to my wanker of an ex. From where I live it takes nearly as long to get to the closest proper airport as it does the train to London. And at least the train is properly relaxing and enjoyable- it forms part of the holiday for me. Sometimes I have to overnight somewhere on the way, and it's usually Paris. Oh no, a night in Paris- what a hardship 😆

Sometimes threads like this leave me thinking I'm making things difficult for myself, so I looked up flights to Nice from nearest- airport for the day I want to leave- Good Friday. There's only one per day, at 11.00, and it costs £236- single. Now, I'd have to be there at 9.00, and the train takes 4 hours- plus airport bus- and costs a fortune-so I'd never make it. I could drive, but I'd have to allow 4 hours (so leaving at 5.00am 😬) and then pay an extortionate amount for airport parking. When I last did it, I caught a flight to Venice, and had to pay for an AirBnB the night before (and Nailsea isn't as exciting as Paris for an overnight 😆).

Meanwhile, my entire travel to the South of France and back- with a 4 day Interrail pass I bought at a 25% discount in the sale- will be around £280- 300, and that's from my local station to wherever I want to go.

Flying just isn't worth the extra expense and hassle IMO.

I don't mind what personal choices other people make. What boils my piss is the automatic assumption that flying is always easier and cheaper, when quite often it isn't.

Like most people irl, I literally couldn't care less-"saving the planet"just isn't on my radar!

Do you not think it needs saving, think it does but you'll be dead anyway, or think it's someone else's job?

Ok, but I want to go abroad and a lot of “abroad” isn’t accessible without flying. Even those places that are accessible without flying there’s a big cost and time impact.

For example, the last two times we’ve been to Disneyland Paris I’ve started by pricing up going by train. It’s a) significantly more expensive and b) significantly more time consuming. By the time I’ve got to Eurostar I’d already be in France from the flight having paid less money to do it. Now granted that’s one example but the same applies for the entirety of mainland Europe.

Got any kids? In any way concerned that large swathes of the planet will become unliveable and the air unbreathable in their lifetime if climate change keeps going the way it is? Or is it someone else’s problem to deal with?

Too many people having too many kids is actually part of the problem.

It really isn't. Western countries - the main consumers - are below replacement levels.
Developing countries' birth rate levels have also decreased since infant mortality massively decreased and contraceptives became available.

I do fly, but I’m also happy to look at other options. We usually holiday in France (and usually drive). Please also check out this website…. Some interesting options for skiers:

skiflightfree.org/

Yes I agree. I’m fed up of this narrative that the responsibility is on the end consumer, rather than the massive billionaire corporations that create the problems for the environment.

These cunts can give up first. Article about the growing private jet industry.

www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm24j1dpexvo

@BadLad

It's a valid article but I'm not sure what the solution is.

On one hand the airline world (and that includes the engine and airframe makers) have made massive efforts to reduce fuel burn and emissions per flight, but at much the same time a whole cohort of HNW individuals have decided they don't want to fly First Class between major airports, they want or have convinced themselves they need to point to point by bizjet..

Indeed.

Apart from getting to holidays by plane, it is also possible to use trains which are much less problematic for emissions. From the UK, there is the Eurostar to the EU continent, and a lovely network of trains there.

There are also ferries to get off the island of Great Britain, to link with the train network as a foot passenger, or to drive.

I’ll give up my one or two flights a year when they ban private jets etc

I feel no guilt about my one flight a year.
When famous/rich people stop taking their private jets whenever they feel like it, I may reconsider.

I'm not going defend all business jet useage but TBF it's not all about the rich and famous on their hols..

In industries where time really is money they have their uses in flying sometimes fairly bog standard employees directly from back of beyond airport in country A to back of beyond airport in country B where there is no quick commercial alternative.

Even Ryanair had (may still have) a bizjet to allow quick repositioning of crews around the network to try and keep the show on road following disruption.