To ask you to swerve vacations abroad on airplanes

[Happyone99]

Inspired by https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5433252-to-ask-you-to-swerve-shein-temu?page=24

As mentioned above, I personally don’t use Shein or Temu because they ARE terrible. However, why only change bad things lower income people happen to be involved with, rather than starting with things higher income people are involved with

Slave labour and poor working conditions are indeed terrible. So is the climate crisis, exacerbated by rich people flying on airplanes for vacations, and poor people in low-lying countries like Bangladesh suffer worst environmental consequences

Who are responsible for the most emissions and who are suffering the most?

I mean I prefer driving (campervan) holidays and I love France but I still totally agree with you that it's not reasonable to insist that someone spends their time and money doing something they don't enjoy and have no interest in!

Plus I'm not sure our diesel burning van is any better tbh.

Convenient

I am not stopping flying when so many have pets.
Pet ownership causes more emissions than my holiday flights and you can't go anywhere at the coast in the UK that isn't full of dogs.

@Ablondiebutagoodyare you seriously saying you disagree with the god that is David Attenborough??

It's quite unfair to paint everyone who flies with the same brush, and while some people's reason for flying is purely for enjoyment, other people have family commitments abroad.

It's not the average annual trip abroad to see family that is contributing to the climate crisis via plane emissions as much as it is regular fliers. If you choose to say all those people who fly to their home country every 1-2 years to see their families are being selfish by prioritising that, then so be it. Many have no family here and the environmental benefit by them not going will be insignificant compared to the impact of not seeing the people who raised them and they grew up alongside.

Maybe this seems like a niche, cherry-picked example to you but it is the reality for many UK citizens. And while it isn't unreasonable to ask people to be environmentally aware, you cannot always assume people's reasons for doing things. It is the ultra-wealthy who regularly fly and the huge companies that emit from their factories that affect emissions a lot more, as do the planes that transport goods instead of commercial holiday airlines.

That being said, I see the appeal of raising awareness amongst those who have no personal need to travel abroad and are only doing it because everyone else does. It's just the making judgements on those who do I don't support. Sorry for this being so long haha

Nit - at’s nae happening. Gan on my holidays on a plane. ✈️☀️

Nah I love my hols sorry! and don’t forget the revenue we bring to other countries. How else are we to see the world (if not by car obvs)

I just got back from a long haul business trip in business class and flying off to Thailand first class tomorrow for a long weekend (am in ME) and then back for a week then flying to Europe business for work, then back home until Easter. I do not care a flying fig what you think or believe, flying is one of the greatest achievements of man, to be able to travel and explore the world. Look up how green all the weapons are that the UK supply to other countries for war, look up the carbon footprint of the UK in Iraq. Ypu do you thanks. You are not necessarily right just because you are not too clever.

Do those pristine towns all have fields of wind turbines and every roof adorned with solar panels? If not, they are probably destroying the environment.

The majority of final energy consumption for heating in France is derived from natural gas (36%), biomass (22%) and electricity (17%) consumption.
In rural areas, off the gas-grid, the consumption of biomass and heating oil is very high. Heating oil is carbon intensive while both heating oil and biomass generate high local emissions.
About 70% of France's electricity is generated by nuclear power.
https://www.rural-energy.eu/country-data/france/

Concrete production is a very high carbon emitter, we should explore different material and stop building high rise blocks

But I'm not rich, have no kids and don't even drive a car and neither did either of my parents.

If I want to go on holiday (unlikely seeing as I'm disabled and broke) then I'm hardly going to try and travel there on a small rubber dinghy. People that do that seem to have quite a negative reputation here in the UK. 🙄

Maybe it is our place to judge whoever chooses to buy goods produced by fossil fuels and slaves. Perhaps the "I'm poor" excuse should be viewed with the disdain; "well you probably don't need that planet destroying plastic tat produced by people who have far shittier lives than yours".

It would be great if we all looked at all of the travel that we do through the year. Car sharing and public transport make an impact on my carbon footprint, it's not always possible or convenient or affordable but we could all do better at considering it.

I don't go on annual family holidays abroad but when we do every few years we drive (5 of us in 1 car) and use the ferry or tunnel. This year we're going on a coach trip to a European country with friends and their families. Last year I went on a trip to France with a sports team with my parents and sister - we could've all driven separately and had 4 x as much carbon on the road but we shared a car and the driving and got a ferry.

The frustration is when looking at train to e.g. Netherlands v plane is that unless you're going from London in the first place, the timings of the cheaper trains mean a night in London and the cost of travel to the city in the first place which is extortionate by train even with family rail cards.

I think it's a case of being mindful, being creative. Mostly our holidays are in the UK.

There are loads of people and organisations with fair higher carbon footprints than me but I'm still conscious of the impact my personal choices make and my personal responsibility for the planet.

Same as that Shein chat - I'm not a high earner (less than £30k pa) but I don't use those fast fashion drop shipping companies, there are other ways of buying clothes and other household items in an affordable and more sustainable way.

I'm not going to have a go at anyone for doing differently.

YABU to use the word "airplanes" on a British site, not to mention your strange use of the word "swerve". I can cope with "vacation" but it’s not the usual word in British English.

Tbh those put me off before I’d even read any further.

Ah Mr I've been flying all over the world for 70 years and got to see amazing places. Now you can't even have a holiday

Do you honestly think other people care if random strangers are judging them or not?

Not a chance, no. However I do avoid buying from the likes of Shein and others with very poor working conditions. I feel that slave labour is a direct impact of buying decisions and can be meaningfully altered by consumer pressure, whereas climate change is an impact of our entire global lifestyle and can only be solved by technology or coordinated government action.

Presumably you live in the South East. To those of us who live in the North, it takes another day each end to get to/from the South Coast, usually on already congested roads, so probably doesn't help climate change. Not to mention the ferries are pretty polluting too, and then you've probably got to drive across Europe to get to your destination, so more road use and pollution! Not sure many people have the extra holiday time and extra money it would cost!

@Namechangedforgoodreasons Hi, sorry about that! Didn’t realize British people don’t say airplanes. Swerve comes from the original Shein/Temu post. And my spelling is a mix of British/American thanks to autocorrect

Is it high up there on your soapbox.

Unfortunately, if I want to see ds2 and go to his wedding, I am going to have to fly, @Happyone99, because he has moved to Australia.

I do acknowledge the carbon footprint, but dh and I almost never fly anywhere, so I hope we can be forgiven for the occasional visit to Australia. Given the price, it certainly won’t be frequent!

Swerve?
Airplanes?

Takes a long while and a lot of expenses to get to Asia like that

This isn't the way. Millionaires and Billionaires won't stop hopping in their private planes. Multinational companies won't stop flying executives around. Denying yourself travel opportunities is just faux virtue signalling that will make no appreciable difference, and harms many places and people that rely heavily on tourist income. Have you asked restaurant and hotel owners in Spain, Greece, anywhere else whether they want people to stop flying?

I also dont want to go back to a world where people are insular and never travel far beyond their home location. Its a big world with much diversity and I want my children, and all children, to see lots of it. Travel broadens perspective and the only people I know who are genuinely racist or bigoted are those that dont travel much.

The way is for govenments and private enterprise to invest heavily in sustainable travel - less polluting plane fuel, more efficient engines, newer planes, new technologies etc. I will be encouraging that, not stopping plane travel all together.

I do draw the line at large cruiseliner ships though, which are far more polluting and environmentally damaging than modern air travel.

The government are doing everything they can to make foreign travel the preserve of the very rich, I don’t think we need extra input from the OP.

Travel while you can, but be nice polite, reasonable travellers, not drunk, rude loudmouths.

A major problem in this country is people who don’t realise they are troublemakers, and don’t care, like the family travelling behind us, when our girls were primary school age.
Drinking pints of beer in the morning, arguing, swearing, on both sides of the aisle too.