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Hypocrisy in how we frame abuse. UK grooming gangs vs Epstein

156 replies

Bowcup · 02/02/2026 09:53

I’m struggling with the inconsistency in how these cases are discussed.

Epstein wasn’t a one-off predator. It was a vast, organised trafficking operation that ran for years, across multiple locations, with dozens (if not hundreds) of victims, recruiters, enablers, and powerful men in the background.

And the girls he targeted weren’t random.

They were overwhelmingly:

  • white
  • working-class
  • often from care, unstable homes, or financial hardship
  • chosen precisely because they were unlikely to be believed or protected

That victim profile is identical to what we hear about in UK grooming cases.

Yet the framing couldn’t be more different.

UK grooming gangs → race, culture, religion endlessly foregrounded
Epstein → “elite abuse of power”, “institutional failure”, “one monstrous individual”

What makes this harder to swallow is that most sexual exploitation in the UK is not carried out by minority groups at all.

According to ONS data and multiple serious case reviews, the majority of perpetrators of group-based child sexual exploitation are white British men. That includes street grooming, online grooming, and organised exploitation. But those cases rarely become cultural flashpoints.

So why is it that:

  • when offenders are from a minority background, it’s treated as a racial or cultural problem
  • but when offenders are white, wealthy, or powerful, it’s treated as an individual moral failing?

Why wasn’t Epstein discussed as:

“White men exploiting vulnerable white girls is a systemic problem”?

Why didn’t we have wall-to-wall discussion about class, care leavers, and the disposability of poor girls?

It feels like race becomes the story when it’s available as an explanation, and disappears when it would force us to look at who actually holds power.

I’m not denying patterns matter. They do.
But if we’re serious about safeguarding, we can’t selectively apply that logic.

Because right now it looks less like protecting girls and more like choosing who we’re comfortable blaming.

OP posts:
NewspaperTaxis · 02/02/2026 13:27

It's all men doing it, and it's pockets of unfettered power where you can do as you please and the authorities either turn a blind eye or are complicit.

So that may be the Church, it may be local authorities, it may be the rich and elite - but in each case, it's hard to turn a light on them, it's somehow a given that they will do their thing. Sure, if someone has an anti-Labour agenda, or anti-Church or -Davo agenda, this will be grist to the mill.

The press here is mainly right wing so they will focus on the grooming gangs - but it still took a while for them to get going on it. I'm not sure we are hearing too much from the survivors of Epstein somehow, am I wrong? There's Virginia Guiffre and I'm not hearing so much from others, of course the perps are very wealthy and can retaliate. But all I seem to be reading is stuff from the leaked files - not the women's point of view so much, or their responding to investigative journalism.

Whyhaveibeencutoutofmamsnot · 02/02/2026 13:29

Epstein was rich and powerful as was most of his friends - going right up to members of the royal family and President of the US as well as the wealthy.
I wonder how many emails mentioning DT have been destroyed.

Changes26 · 02/02/2026 13:37

“White men exploiting vulnerable white girls is a systemic problem”?

No one is saying this because it will expose so many rich, powerful men (I will say majority white) who have abused women and girls. They have all fought to protect themselves and will do anything to continue do so, whatever it takes.

The grooming gangs and Epstein and his circle are not dissimilar: they use their power and control to abuse women and girls because they feel they are entitled to do whatever they want. That’s what it boils down to.

Changes26 · 02/02/2026 13:41

I will also say that violence against women and girls is one of the most urgent problems our human race is facing. Unfortunately, tackling it requires the accountability and co-operation of men.

keepeofthesevenkeys · 02/02/2026 13:41

Ihatethistimeline · 02/02/2026 11:03

With the latest Epstein data release - there is talk from Epstein, Maxwell and others around Jewish supremacy, comments that the higher percentage of Ashkenazi blood you have makes you smarter than others, slurs against ‘goyim’ aka white people and slurs against black people. So when you see the girls abused, there is a class and race angle.

Do you have any actual evidence for this?

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/02/2026 14:46

This is a male violence issue.

There are a significant proportion of men who want to abuse women and girls. All the structures that allow them, whether that's religion (Catholic Church), culture (grooming gangs), money (Epstein), power (Weinstein) or force (basically every army) the point is the same. Make male loyalty to the group, and women's powerlessness to the group, very high. The stronger and more powerful the group, and the weaker women are, the better.

The antidote is women's power. Would there be mass exploitation of women by NGO staff if all women were on the ground? No. Would there be child marriage in the US if women had the power and money? No.

So to answer your question OP, race and culture are distractions, made for us to see it as a pattern it isn't. If only we control Asian men, it wouldn't happen. No, educate, empower and listen to women and girls. Everywhere.

ReadingCrimeFiction · 02/02/2026 14:49

crackofdoom · 02/02/2026 13:14

Hmmmm....not sure about that. Were Tim Westwood's victims not overwhelmingly very young and black? Yet I've never heard race being mentioned in that case.

I don't know anything about Tim Westwood I'm afraid so I can't comment. My comment was purely Epstein vs Rochdale. I am certain that yes, there are abuse cases with race as a factor that isn't discussed, I'm juts not sure that the Epstein hideousness, and all those hideous men (yes, many of them white powerful men) is a specific race issue.

GeneralPeter · 02/02/2026 15:08

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/02/2026 14:46

This is a male violence issue.

There are a significant proportion of men who want to abuse women and girls. All the structures that allow them, whether that's religion (Catholic Church), culture (grooming gangs), money (Epstein), power (Weinstein) or force (basically every army) the point is the same. Make male loyalty to the group, and women's powerlessness to the group, very high. The stronger and more powerful the group, and the weaker women are, the better.

The antidote is women's power. Would there be mass exploitation of women by NGO staff if all women were on the ground? No. Would there be child marriage in the US if women had the power and money? No.

So to answer your question OP, race and culture are distractions, made for us to see it as a pattern it isn't. If only we control Asian men, it wouldn't happen. No, educate, empower and listen to women and girls. Everywhere.

It’s definitely a male violence problem.

But I don’t see those other things as ‘distractions’ (at least, I don’t think we can take that as our blanket view).

Specific institutions are worse, specific cultures are worse, specific armies are worse, specific setups, laws, policies, etc etc. all matter. The alternative is a counsel of despair that nothing can be changed as it’s all just men and men aren’t going anywhere.

If we can name a specific sex (which obviously we must), then we should be happy to name the specific other things.

RonaldMcDonaldTrump · 02/02/2026 15:11

For the Epsteins and Weinsteins of this world, their Jewish faith is never mentioned by the press. If a rich guy called Mohammed had done what Epstein had done, his faith or culture would have been pivotal to the reporting.

Tonissister · 02/02/2026 15:19

Ihatethistimeline · 02/02/2026 11:03

With the latest Epstein data release - there is talk from Epstein, Maxwell and others around Jewish supremacy, comments that the higher percentage of Ashkenazi blood you have makes you smarter than others, slurs against ‘goyim’ aka white people and slurs against black people. So when you see the girls abused, there is a class and race angle.

That is interesting. But that view was not shared by the white, Christian abusers he sent the girls to 'party' with. US presidents, techbros and UK royalty aren't all Jewish and they were instrumental in the abuse, so the element of one set thinking another set is easy prey was far more to do with money and power than religion and race in this instance.

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/02/2026 15:19

GeneralPeter · 02/02/2026 15:08

It’s definitely a male violence problem.

But I don’t see those other things as ‘distractions’ (at least, I don’t think we can take that as our blanket view).

Specific institutions are worse, specific cultures are worse, specific armies are worse, specific setups, laws, policies, etc etc. all matter. The alternative is a counsel of despair that nothing can be changed as it’s all just men and men aren’t going anywhere.

If we can name a specific sex (which obviously we must), then we should be happy to name the specific other things.

Edited

Yes, the specific power structures where men have more absolute power and women have less. The answer isn't despair, the answer is empowering women.

EasternStandard · 02/02/2026 15:22

GeneralPeter · 02/02/2026 15:08

It’s definitely a male violence problem.

But I don’t see those other things as ‘distractions’ (at least, I don’t think we can take that as our blanket view).

Specific institutions are worse, specific cultures are worse, specific armies are worse, specific setups, laws, policies, etc etc. all matter. The alternative is a counsel of despair that nothing can be changed as it’s all just men and men aren’t going anywhere.

If we can name a specific sex (which obviously we must), then we should be happy to name the specific other things.

Edited

True. Look at the structures which enable it and why.

GeneralPeter · 02/02/2026 15:25

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/02/2026 15:19

Yes, the specific power structures where men have more absolute power and women have less. The answer isn't despair, the answer is empowering women.

I agree fully. So my next bit is an 'and' not a 'but'.

I think that model is far too broad alone to address these problems. Talk about and confront the problem with the Catholic church, with celebrity culture and media institutions, with Mirpuri Muslim culture, with ultra-rich and powerful men, etc. etc. etc. Add as many things as you want to that list, but I don't think treating them as distractions is helpful. Too often I think it's a cover for squeamishness. The same squeamishness that protected each of those abuses from scrutiny for far too long.

Dutchhouse14 · 02/02/2026 15:27

Maybe instead of concentratiing the perpetrators of abuse we should think about who they target as their victims.
Due to polictical correctness the authorities were frightened to say who the abusers in were rotherham, thats not right.
We need to shine a light on whoever is abusing girls and women, regardless of race, religion, power or wealth

Simplestars · 02/02/2026 15:29

RonaldMcDonaldTrump · 02/02/2026 15:11

For the Epsteins and Weinsteins of this world, their Jewish faith is never mentioned by the press. If a rich guy called Mohammed had done what Epstein had done, his faith or culture would have been pivotal to the reporting.

💯 agree.

ktopfwcv · 02/02/2026 15:30

Quite right OP. White privilege strikes again.

aModernClassic · 02/02/2026 15:33

Everanewbie · 02/02/2026 11:52

Interestingly, and shockingly, victims of rape gangs were often labelled by police and social services were often labelled as sex workers.

I am sick of the whataboutery with the rape gang scandal.

This!

SidekickSylvia · 02/02/2026 15:43

The Asian grooming gangs specifically targeted young girls outside of their own race and religion, believing them to be inferior. So there was racism in addition to the torture, rape, trafficking and other sexual abuse.

aModernClassic · 02/02/2026 15:44

Bowcup · 02/02/2026 13:03

I want to add one more thing, because I think this is where some of the disconnect is.

I do not think culture or religion explains sexual abuse. It happens everywhere. Men abuse power wherever they have access to vulnerable girls and expect impunity.

The Catholic abuse scandal wasn’t about “Catholic culture” in some abstract sense. It was about priests having access to children and an institutional cover-up that went right up to the Vatican. Power, access, denial.

The UK grooming gangs were also not a Muslim network. There was no religious hierarchy, no organised faith structure directing abuse. These were criminal networks of men exploiting vulnerable girls, enabled by authorities failing to act.

Where I do see hypocrisy is in how the press chooses to frame these stories.

When abuse involves minority perpetrators, press reporting quickly centres race, culture and religion. When abuse involves white or elite perpetrators, the framing shifts to power, wealth, corruption and institutional failure.

Those are not neutral choices. They shape how the public understands the problem.

What gets lost in both cases is the same thing: access to girls.

In the UK, the girls most exposed were poor, often in care or unstable housing. That matters. It is also relevant that some minority communities have lower rates of children entering care, often because wider family networks step in. That is a protective factor. Fewer girls in care means fewer girls exposed in those settings.

That does not make abuse cultural. It makes it opportunistic.

My issue is not with acknowledging facts. It is with selective storytelling.

Why does press coverage so often turn one set of cases into a debate about culture, but another into a debate about power, when the victims are the same type of girls and the institutional failures are so similar?

Until we are willing to talk honestly about why girls in care and working-class girls are so accessible and so disposable, I don’t think we are actually addressing safeguarding. We are just arguing about which lens feels more comfortable.

But what about the Sikh girls? I don’t think there’s many of them in care home either, but they were targeted and raped by the predominantly Muslim rape/grooming gangs.

Meadowfinch · 02/02/2026 15:47

OP, the Epstein case is in the USA, not under British jurisdiction, so what we think or how we react to it, is pretty much irrelevant. We have no say.

Comparing the two is a bit pointless

Trock · 02/02/2026 15:54

RonaldMcDonaldTrump · 02/02/2026 15:11

For the Epsteins and Weinsteins of this world, their Jewish faith is never mentioned by the press. If a rich guy called Mohammed had done what Epstein had done, his faith or culture would have been pivotal to the reporting.

It’s not mentioned because it’s not relevant. Firstly I don’t think either of them were actually religious (so there was no ‘faith’ at play). Secondly, the Epstein trafficking networks involved a range of people of different religions/ethnicities. The common factor was wealth and power, not religion/ethnicity.

crackofdoom · 02/02/2026 16:00

RonaldMcDonaldTrump · 02/02/2026 15:11

For the Epsteins and Weinsteins of this world, their Jewish faith is never mentioned by the press. If a rich guy called Mohammed had done what Epstein had done, his faith or culture would have been pivotal to the reporting.

Actually, funnily enough a rich guy called Mohammed did do similar- remember Mohammed Al- Fayed? And funnily enough I don't remember the media putting a racialised slant on it.

I don't know what I'm getting at here myself, BTW. Just comparing and contrasting historical sex abuse scandals I guess. Maybe al- Fayed was considered to be the "right" kind of Muslim due to his immense wealth and power and Royal Family links?

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/02/2026 16:04

GeneralPeter · 02/02/2026 15:25

I agree fully. So my next bit is an 'and' not a 'but'.

I think that model is far too broad alone to address these problems. Talk about and confront the problem with the Catholic church, with celebrity culture and media institutions, with Mirpuri Muslim culture, with ultra-rich and powerful men, etc. etc. etc. Add as many things as you want to that list, but I don't think treating them as distractions is helpful. Too often I think it's a cover for squeamishness. The same squeamishness that protected each of those abuses from scrutiny for far too long.

Edited

I'm going to 'and" you as well Grin

When we look at confronting power structures we need to be aware of both overestimating in the case of a structure we don't like, and underestimating in the converse. Just because I hate the Church and have lots of Muslim frie ds, I should treat both structures as problematic.

Treacling · 02/02/2026 16:11

For anyone reading this who is interested the next stage of the crowd funded rape gang inquiry starts today. Here’s a link. I am glad an MP has finally done something to try and get justice for the girls. I am unsure if they are crowdfunding for the private prosecutions but I’m happy to chip in if anyone knows of a crowd funder.

https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/2018283394157683139/mediaViewer?currentTweet=2018283394157683139&currentTweetUser=RupertLowe10

Sikh girls had the K2K project - yes they were targeted. One was rescued in Hounslow last month by a large group of Sikhs.

crackofdoom · 02/02/2026 16:17

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/02/2026 16:04

I'm going to 'and" you as well Grin

When we look at confronting power structures we need to be aware of both overestimating in the case of a structure we don't like, and underestimating in the converse. Just because I hate the Church and have lots of Muslim frie ds, I should treat both structures as problematic.

True.
It's just a shame that the debate has been distorted by bad actors focusing on Muslims and only Muslims- in bad faith- so that it's a temptation to go the other way and counter their narrative.

If Reform and their flunkeys really cared about "are wimmin and girls" they'd shut the fuck up and allow serious, police and community led efforts to counter the problem to take place without being turned into a hate filled circus.