My child is asking to join the scouts and I’m in two minds.

[Dagda]

My child is very keen to join our local scouts group. I’ve read a lot about the many abuse issues within the scouts and I’m feeling a bit conflicted. If I did let her join what kind of questions can I ask to assure myself that they take child safeguarding seriously?

Scouts have exactly the same histoical safeguarding issues as schools, churches, children’s homes, etc etc. They have also tightened up their policies. So you do the same as with every decision about your child going places: check it out by looking and speaking to the leaders yourself, ask other parents about the group, ask your child if they like/dislike it, talk to your kids about safe touch, good/bad secrets etc. You can’t wrap them up in cotton wool forever

The Safeguarding policies, practice, and training at Scouts have been way ahead of schools for a long, long time.

Do you let your child go to school ?

I do. But I wouldn’t send my child to boarding school. Nor would I let them do any other over night activities at this age because I think it is very difficult to explain grooming to a child. I think it is the camps aspect I am most struggling with.

Why not volunteer to be a helper? Scouting depends on parent/helpers and it will give you a good insight into how the group is run.

I wouldn’t voluntarily send my child into a children’s home though. And I’m not religious anymore. Unfortunately my family was impacted greatly by abuse. My uncle committed suicide and a large contributor of his mental difficulties was the abuse he suffered at the hands of a priest who was very much trusted by the family.

Scout camps don't happen all year round - at the most there will be one or two a year (in the summer months) and taking part is not obligatory!

Think you should let them join, and go along to the weekly meetings, and have lots of fun & new experiences, and then see how you feel about the group/ the adult leaders/ their safeguarding in practice as well as policy.

They're bound to ask if anyone's parents can help out with any camping events that take place, so maybe you could volunteer?

My teenager is in Scouts, joined Beavers around 6 or 7 I think. What age is your child? That will depend how many opportunities there are for overnights away. You can always say no to overnights, it is not compulsory. Every unit is different but I don’t remember many overnights in Beavers, a small number. Things like sleepovers in a church hall or trampoline park. Small number of camping opportunities. This is 5 -7, so quite young. Then comes cubs 7-10. Opportunities increase for camping sometimes but not always at Scout Centres which offer outdoor education opportunities like climbing, kayaking, cycling etc.
In scouts age 10 to 14, things can really take off in opportunities if your child wants to. Nothing is compulsory, stuff is offered but you don’t have to sign up for it.

My kids have done several 6 day summer camps within a 2 -3 hr drive, 2 European trips of 10 days, there are various jamborees round the world they can apply for. Options this year included Iceland or Scotland. These have scouts from round the world. The Scout World jamboree is in Poland in 2027, another great opportunity.

My kids have loved it. One in particular has really thrived and loves to apply for jamborees abroad. They talk about being a scout leader when they age out of Scouts. The other prefers local activities and isn’t keen on camping!

in terms of safeguarding, my experience has been positive. I remember dropping my kid down to the local church hall for the weekly scout night and they couldn’t go inside because there was only one scout leader there at the time. Single sex when it comes to sharing a tent.

My job involves exposure to historical abuse and there are many ways it can occur. I don’t think scouts is any riskier than life in general. Sadly much abuse takes place within the home. The biggest threats to our children’s safety are other males in the family. Sad but true. If you have a child who yearns for scouts I would let them try it, the opportunities for personal growth are significant for those who want to.

You can join scouts without doing overnight trips.

Safeguarding is important with anyone you leave your child with not just scouts. That includes school, church, sports and family members.

Thank you for sharing your experience. My child is 11.

I was concerned to see that camps and jamborees were the places that most abuse took place but your experience is reassuring.

Find one with a female leader?

I know women can also abuse children, but statistically it is much less likely...

(from ONS: "perpetrators of child sexual abuse were most often male (91.3%)")

Personally, I don't really agree with your worry in general, but if you have this concern and want a logical way of lowering the (already tiny) risk, then finding a group with a female leader would seem to be a logical choice.

Maybe it is just pure random chance, but actually 3 of the 4 scout leaders I've known in my life have been women anyway...

I was sceptical about my son joining scouts too - not for the same reasons but because it seemed a bit military-ish for me.

He absolutely loves it though.

You are totally correct and I would feel more comfortable with this. Even if there was one female who was a mum involved I feel like it would lower the risk. Unfortunately we live in a small town and the leader is male.

I would also be concerned with older boys though. Unfortunately between my own family experiences and my work experiences I have a lot of knowledge of abuse and I wonder if this colours my view. I know through my work that older teenagers pose the greatest risk. And it’s the hierarchy within the scouts that concerns me.

My son has done scouts for five years now, no issues whatsoever. He's done many sleeps away camps. Absolutely loves it.

If you have issues, volunteer.

There must be more than one leader. Scouts have policies that at no time should a leader be in a 1 to 1 situation with a child.

Do you think she would be capable of telling you if anything felt wrong?

If she has seen your reluctance to send her, she is more unlikely to let on if problems do arise. She'll be worried you'll pull her out, so will keep quiet. Unfortunately, I have seen that scenario play out a few times-- kids not telling about bullying in particular because they know their parent will take them out

Ask if you can volunteer at the camps

This. Scouts are crying out for helpers.

Mine was sexually assaulted by another child at a camp and the response was terrible. However it is and remains, one of the most popular clubs in the village we live in. Just be super cautious and also volunteer to supervise frequently so you can get a sense of what really goes on.

Scouts are always very welcoming of parent helpers, especially at camps. I volunteered as a helper at Beavers once a fortnight. I ended up cooking Xmas dinner in a hall with only 1 little cooker for about 60 Scouts, Cubs and Beavers. After Scouts there is Venture Scouts where they do more things. The group my DS belonged to did a learning to sail course, pistol shooting at targets, archery, army type adult course, D of E, as well as the camps and jamborees. It's a great opportunity for your DC to make new friends away from school. My adult DS still goes out once every month with his old Venture Scout mates, a couple of these friends joined Beavers with my DS and they went all the way through together.

My twins joined as cubs and it’s has been absolutely the best thing they have done.

My girl has just had to leave explorers now she is 18, has been a young leader in her old cub group for 3 years and has now progressed to be a leader. The safeguarding rules are so very strict - and if you have any concerns you can become involved and be a parent helper to set your mind at ease.

I would say my kids have gained so many skills and gained so much confidence through their time within the whole scouting organisation - my daughter has over 50 nights away from home from ages 10-18, has learned so much, had so much fun, been to so many places, can pitch any tent, talk to any adult or child, has so much common sense, great sense of humour and ability to thrive is testing situations, can handle anything or anyone and has a brilliant down to earth can do attitude - I just really can’t speak highly enough about it. It dosent cost much and still relays on people donating their time to make the magic happen. And there is nothing quite like seeing parents dropping their precious ones off in a field on a Friday night for weekend camp - and running away to their cars, laughing together ready for their free weekend . When it’s an all group camp - beavers, cubs, scouts, explorers - then some families can get rid of 3 or 4 ! But it is really strict - run with the help of many parent helpers and most of the leaders are parents too - they do a fantastic job.
they have 4 female and 1 male leaders - and countless parents.

Is there a guides group she could join?

I don't blame you, I feel the same about Scouts in particular, having been witness as a child myself to abuse in more than one of these settings as well as at school - but that is another thread altogether. Others will brush this off as paranoid but I don't care.

Perhaps can you look for other similar clubs where you could stay for the session? I don't believe scouts and cubs allow this.

Are you sure she'll get a place anyway. Lots of groups are over subscribed with a long waiting list.