My child is asking to join the scouts and I’m in two minds.

[Dagda]

My child is very keen to join our local scouts group. I’ve read a lot about the many abuse issues within the scouts and I’m feeling a bit conflicted. If I did let her join what kind of questions can I ask to assure myself that they take child safeguarding seriously?

Shame you feel like this. My child had the best time over several years- did the camps, learnt to sail, met lots of children from different schools, did most of Dof E through Explorers. Had support when life was extremely tough for her
Think i never felt what you are feeling, it was a totally great place and I was extremely grateful for all the volunteers that gave up their free time to look after others children. A totally positive time

Is there a local Girl Guiding unit? That might be worth looking into

There’s no more abuse in scouts than there would be in any extra curricular activity or even school

Perhaps the bigger risk here is that you let your previous family experience prevent you from giving your child opportunities.

This. Why not join Girl Guiding instead?

I don't think Scouts is for your child.

Most good scout groups are heavily over subscribed. Unless you have already signed up it's probably too late to get a space anyway unless you offer to volunteer anyway. I can't see you doing this given how you feel. A group that has spaces at scout levy with no waiting list, is unlikely to be a great group tbh. If you won't allow your child to enjoy it in full let another child take the space and find an alternative activity.

Besides this unless you trust the leaders and the modern safeguarding protocols it won't work for your child and there's no point. You have to allow the leaders to make risk assessments and decisions whilst caring for your child. Scouts is about allowing children to take risks in a safe environment but this relies on parental trust to a certain degree. If you don't trust the adults involved you really shouldn't be letting them take the kids climbing or on a hike or whatever anyway.

Scouting is not the same as it was. If you don't appreciate this and aren't prepared to investigate how it's changed and the measures that are in place for everything then I don't know why you would even consider it.

The leaders have to safeguard themselves as much as the children now from all kinds of potential accusations.

I am so glad that my parents sent me to scouts. So many life-changing experiences whilst I was growing up, mainly on camps. I think teaching your child about grooming is far preferable to never letting them have experiences away from you. My DD1 is in the scouts now and her confidence has soared because of it.

We used to live jolly rurally and we did used to have enough room for the odd extra kid to join us so I wouldn't be certain on that. There were quite a number of groups and the primary schools only had e.g. 70 children in the whole school, so I do think it depends what area you're in.

I am a cubs leader. The safeguarding rules have changed a lot over the years for the better.

I volunteered with all my kids for beavers/scouts. It is so much fun. The kids are really happy and very funny. My daughter adores it. My older DC’s closest friends came from scouts, and they are on balance, great people.

Cub camp is a riot. Exhausting, but fantastic.

I have no particular scout skills. I can’t tie a complicated knot, I get muddled with OS maps at 6 numbers, and my tents are always saggy. I bring a mum vibe. My
mum was my Brownie leader and I loved that time, so I do the same for my kids.

Volunteer. They will never say no. Scouts is brilliant. My pack does not fuss about regimental stuff or tidy neckers.

Scouts is so much better than Brownies and Guiding. There were women volunteers at ours and I’m sure I read on the other thread that safeguarding in guiding isn’t as good or up to date as scouts.

Both DC went to scouts. It was such a well run activity. They did stuff there which they would never have gotten to do in an other group such as midnight hikes, map reading and orienteering which they still talk about now. From a safeguarding perspective I would always go and have a look and make sure you feel comfortable. However, good communication with children and a clear knowledge of what is acceptable is really important. I would not hold off sending my child to Scouts.

Scouts is great and is usually run by multiple volunteers. In fact a lot of groups are at risk of no longer running due to lack of volunteers so maybe you could sign yourself up too.

My son was happy to do camps when younger but has become a bit more of a homebody as he has got older so hasn't been on one in a while. It isn't compulsory. He just goes to the weekly sessions (though it is a shame as he misses out on some great activities they do at camp).

The safeguarding concern that OP has is almost entirely caused by men. The lack of men in guides solves that problem more than any safeguarding policy will.

PP have posted great advice and experiences about Scouting which I would echo.

One area which I would urge you to consider is your comment that you can’t explain grooming to her.
i assume she goes to high school so these opportunities that you are concerned about for Scouting are freely available at school. You need to be having appropriate conversations with her about being safe both in person and online (which is actually where the biggest risk is currently)
have a look on NSPCC and similar websites for guidance on having these conversations, consent, etc etc.

Scouting will be the least of your worries as she grows older and explores the world. I hope you do let her join as both myself and my children had fabulous experiences and it helps with so many life skills and confidence boosting.

Abuse has already affected your family and I’m so sorry for that, but don’t let it limit your daughter and her opportunities.

Op needs to get some help for her anxiety as it’s clear she is falling into thought traps- catastrophising, all or nothing thinking, selective thinking , fortune telling…. to name but a few. To force that onto a child is concerning.

One of my children was abused outside of school or any social club. I am able to think rationally and if I had younger children it would not stop them from doing things to push the there is an abuser on every corner narrative. It’s not healthy.

Things have changed a lot, yes in the past wrongs were done but safeguarding is much improved and you have to weigh up all the positives they learn, mine did camps from young and it was very well organised

Absolutely this re online grooming and abuse.

Scouts is fantastic. Does your child not leave the house? It’s not boarding school. They literally go to the village hall for 90 minutes and learn about how to safely build a campfire. Or go to the local climbing wall for a session. Or go kayaking.

It’s much safer from a safeguarding perspective than sports (my dc does both), as there is no getting changed into kit, no physical contact, no long training days away from home. It’s literally an after school club. There are usually two overnight camps a year, but they don’t have to go. That said, i cannot imagine how any abuse would ever occur at one. Children are in tents of 2-3, no adults ever allowed in their tents, no other indoor spaces. Very well supervised with multiple adults.

As someone who has experienced sexual abuse and with several close family members who have been convicted of sexual abuse (who did have contact with my children), scouting is one setting where I’ve never had concerns about my dc and their safety. That said at the age for scouts (10), you should have already equipped your dc with the life skills to trust their gut and speak up if anything makes them uncomfortable. They will have years of school residentials and enrichment trips to come where they need to be confident looking out for themselves. Mine has been on a 6 day school residential in Europe every year since she was 11, which was much more haphazardly supervised than anything in scouting.

Never mind everything online. My dc are very closely monitored online and have no social media until they are 16. But other friends are on TikTok and Snapchat talking to all sorts of creepy grown men. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. I’m quite comfortable with mine spending Wednesday 7-8:30pm doing science experiments with scouts than being home chatting with weirdos on Fortnite like their peers.

When DS was in cubs etc. I made a point of being a very visible and engaged DP. Partly for altruistic reasons- genuinely wanted to support all the volunteers giving up so much of their time, and partly because on the rare chance there was any abuse they are less likely to go for DCs where the DPs are heavily involved and can see if anything going on. Same principle applied to other activities like mini rugby etc.

That issue was the GG policy of being a female organisation that was allowing males to identify as female and not disclose when the unit was not single sex. It could have affected any unit, but the reality was the number of units affected was rather small.

The High Court clarification last year has forced GG to amend their policy. Adults will have to leave by April. There hasn't been clarification on young people; it wouldn't surprise me if they're left to age out of their section, but that's my guess.

The distinction between GG and scouting is that scouting is openly mixed-sex, however it wasn't always clear if single gender accomodation = single sex either.

Otherwise safeguarding practices are very similar in both organisations.

GG tends to be a bit more rigourous about risk assessing and specialised permits for adventurous activities and has lower insurance premiums due to fewer claims.

Both Scouting and Guiding are great organisations for safely allowing young people to develop their skills and grow in confidence.

The best defence against exploitation and abuse in any aspect of life is confidence.

My two did scouts all the way through. They also did football, cricket, swimming, refereeing. Now at 23 and 20 and off at uni they still refer to those years in scouts with their mates as the best.
Trips away, many over nighters, lots of time away from parents from a young age, expeditions, competitions, their group was amazing and am so grateful for the adults who gave up their time.
Risk v benefit? Wouldn’t hesitate.

My kids are in scouts. No kids are allowed to be left alone with a leader. The leaders need a second adult/ witness at all times. Both mine love scouts, and it's been a super hobby for them. It's reasonably priced as run by volunteers, they've made new friends, and had lots of fun experiences.

… also DS1 was questioned about his time in scouts during the assessment day for his grad job. Which was interesting!

Trans row aside that wasn’t what I read. It was poor paperwork safety in guiding as they don’t pay to have it done properly, a struggle to get volunteers which hinders activities …