My child is asking to join the scouts and I’m in two minds.

[Dagda]

My child is very keen to join our local scouts group. I’ve read a lot about the many abuse issues within the scouts and I’m feeling a bit conflicted. If I did let her join what kind of questions can I ask to assure myself that they take child safeguarding seriously?

I was very apprehensive and DD didn’t attend her first camp until she was 10. She’s now 18 and the friendships she has made there are totally different to the friends she had at school. She’s still at scouting and despite saying she would stop years ago, she still goes.

I totally understand your sensitivity, I had that too but I believe safeguarding isn’t just about preventing certain situations but also empowering a child to speak up when things don’t feel right.

You sound very risk averse. Scouting encourages children to learn things that are age appropriate but may seem too risky for that age. Eg my 14 year old went on a trip with others overnight camping all by themselves with a leader on the end of a mobile only (she checked in with them once at the campsite). It did amazing things for his sense of self, he learned his capability and resilience and resourcefulness through scouting and now he's an independent young man. I loved it for him and school would have never pushed those kinds of experiences as they are very risk averse in comparison. So you may want to think through the activities you want for your child and how you'll feel when these opportunities are presented to her. I love scouting and would encourage any kid to get stuck in- it'll be great for her.

My DD and DS are scouts and cubs, they think its brilliant and so do i, my DH also volunteers. It teaches a different skill set than school - survival, cooking, looking after your community, fundraising, leadership skills, working as a team - they have gained such confidence since going, would highly recommend giving it a go.

Adults will never be alone with your child.
Older scouts will age out at 14. Tents are single sex.
Parent volunteers are always welcomed at camp.

DH was an assistant cub leader. Both of our kids passed through his pack whilst he was there and he finally stopped then the youngest was half way through scouts.
I have friends who always go to camp with their children's units. I actually feel a bit sorry for them not having the opportunity to go away with their friends without their mum being there to supervise. (I did with our kids at cub camp, but DH always worked with the groups that our kids weren't in.

My DSs just love it. Especially the camps but they are twice a year and optional (well not optional at all according to the DCs but definitely not all kids go)

Have you got a local army cadets you can join from 12 or Air Cadet or Sea cadets?

My 11 year old dd goes and loves it. My older ds went too and it's the same female leader they've had for years. Never felt worried. The leaders in both cubs and scouts have been doing for a long time and are fantastic. You could always volunteer to be a parent helper? Both of mine have done camps too and loved it.

Why are so many people suggesting sending her to other organisations rather than Scouts?
She's an 11 year old girl, the chances are she wants to join Scouts because that's the organisation her friends are in.

At 11 friendships are important.

You're not unreasonable to have concerns, we should always be aware of the risks when we send our children to any activity without us - whether that's school, scouts, out with friends etc.

But you are unreasonable to stop your child trying these activities without at least investigating the risks further, and weighting up the risks when compared to the benefits that your child may receive.

Go and talk to the scout leaders, ask about their safeguarding policies, and how they work in practice. Talk to other parents. Talk to your child about grooming, abuse and what to do in the event that they feel uncomfortable. It's really important that your child feels they can come to you, or another trusted adult, if they are in a situation that they feel uneasy about.

If there's a space available, and you've talked to the leaders, then let your child try it out for a bit, see if they enjoy it, volunteer to help at a few sessions, build a relationship with the leaders yourself.

If you really don't feel comfortable sending your child on camp then don't. While scout camps are amazing, scouts do so much more than just camping. It's not the be all and end all if they miss the camp.

Assuming since they are 11 that you have had the pants rule? Discussed situations that might come up and how to deal with them.

I am so sorry to read this. Absolutely awful.

I was a Cub Leader in Ireland for over 10 years (and only left to go overseas for work 2 years ago). Safeguarding was sacrosanct. Huge amount of training initially and revisions every couple of years (mandatory). Garda vetting done every 2 years. We were always clear with parents about safeguarding and what we do. The cubs were all used to being dragged along with us if we had to do something with 1 Cub (deal with a cut, or tears etc) so there was never ever a 1on1 situation.

Parents were welcomed on many of our activities - hikes etc. Any who did the vetting and safeguarding training were welcome to stay overnight on camp/hostel trips.

And overnight activities are not mandatory - we always had a few not coming because of schedule issues, some who didn’t come for not being ready or family reasons. And some who came with the intention of staying but going home late in the evening as they got homesick. Sometimes we had the odd one come for the day but planning not to stay the night but just do the activities who sent mum/dad home again in the end….so we were happy to work around what worked for each family.

The best thing is to talk to you local Leaders, and other parents in your group, and see if you are happy with how they manage.

And you can always pull your child if there’s any impropriety, and there are routes to ensure any impropriety is dealt with properly. But in my time (and my earlier time as a Girl Guide and young Leader, and as a Scout Leader in a different Venture unit), I have never had any issues to be concerned it.

You've only seen the bad stuff nobody mentions the wonderful good stuff. Let her go ask for a chat with the leaders.and encoursge her to do everything available. Scouting is the best thing for all. Dont let a few bad pennies skew your judgement. There are some of those everywhere.

Would you let her go to Church?

Scouting is not a club. Ssd to learm abouts such an experience but theset hingsvcan happen anywhere even on a home sleepover.

YANBU to be cautious about an organisation that has been, and probably still is, a honeypot for paeds.

My child is in Beavers and we decline all sleepovers and camping. When they’re old enough and confident enough to know what’s right and wrong and how to communicate issues, we’ll rethink if they really want to.

Child abuse is sadly rife. YANBU to protect your child and use your instincts to do so.

The way I see it, is they won’t remember a missed camp (you don’t miss what you don’t have as a child), but they’d remember an unwanted action from a grown up for the rest of their life.

Some people have very loose safeguarding measures and that’s a risk they take for themselves and their families, but there’s nothing wrong with being more cautious and protective when it comes to avoiding situations that carry risk to your child, who can’t protect themselves.

https://www.boltburdonkemp.co.uk/abuse-claims/where-does-abuse-happen/scouts/scouts-abuse-map/

These are scary and enlightening statistics.

@BiddyPopthe2nd

Parents were welcomed on many of our activities - hikes etc. Any who did the vetting and safeguarding training were welcome to stay overnight on camp/hostel trips.

Unfortunately, sexual abuse is highly under-reported especially in the time it takes place (may be disclosed years or decades later). Having a dbs check and online training does not mean someone isn’t keen on children, it simply means they haven’t been caught for anything yet.

I understand that there are risks everywhere but risks are about balancing the benefits and potential costs. Kids need school, for example, even if their teacher is male. They don’t need a club, it’s totally optional. And a club that promotes sleepovers is going to be very appealing for abusers, as it has been proved to be in the past - and present.

Child abuse hasn’t gone away because people get DBS checks now. Sadly, it’s still alive and kicking.

My DD has had an amazing time in the Cubs and Scouts. The safeguarding has been great on camps. I also thought that adults who were interested sexually in girls, would be less likely to join the Scouts.

Excellent advice.

I wouldn’t leave her in the care of the Catholic Church no. Because they have a really dismal record of abuse.

Honesty around here scouts have a massive waiting list. You could be stressing out about a decision that you might not have to make .

Presumably she won’t be going on any school trips or sleepovers either? Poor kid - she’s going to miss out on such a lot, including gaining the confidence to keep herself safe, because of your highly skewed perceptions.

I hope you let her, the kids i have seen go though scouts, cadets etc have really benefited,become more confident, gained good life skills as well as a group of friends that like being outdoors and are responsible citizens.

Safeguarding in organisations is alot more tighter than it used to be and at 11 she is becoming more able to talk about issues.

Where I live you would have to volunteer to become a leader if you wanted any hope of your daughter getting a space, so your worry might well be an irrelevance.

It’s normal for children to go through Beavers and Cubs before Scouts and waiting lists are incredibly long.

My daughter is at Scouts and loves it.