Benefits explosion- where will it end?

[TheBlueKoala]

"PIP benefits explosion: Anxiety and depression handouts have nearly TRIPLED to £4.3bn since Covid - with autism and ADHD bill hitting £2.2bn and 'back pain' £1.6bn"

Something is not right here. When I have written before on here telling about people I know who claim for anxiety although they have rich social lives (funded by 440£ extra per month from PIP) I've had many people telling me that it's not possible etc. It sure is. How many 16 year olds are claiming PIP for anxiety?

Instead of benefits why not pay for therapy- invest massively in the NHS mental health support so that people with anxiety, adhd and autism can see a therapist regularly to help them. This would make a difference for tje individual and the society. Throwing out money won't.

AINBU- I agree with about
AIBU- No, extra money is always useful

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15510221/PIP-benefits-anxiety-depression-austism-ADHD-pain-Covid-Labour.html

I partly agree. The benefits system, PIP and DLA is putting huge pressure on the country, and that pressure is only growing. But the solution isn’t simple.

The NHS is in a complete mess. Waiting lists are out of control, I’ve lost count of how many appointments for my daughter have been cancelled. Mental health services are underfunded. Wages are too low. Childcare is unaffordable. There aren’t enough special school places. All of these issues push people towards benefits in the first place.

There are so many things that need fixing before you can realistically “fix” the benefits system. The problem is, fixing any of those things also costs money and the argument then becomes that you need fewer people relying on benefits to fund improvements elsewhere.

On top of that, there’s a wider cultural issue around work and state support. No country gets this perfectly right, but some clearly manage it better than we do.

I have plenty of insight thanks having suffered from MH myself (and been unable to access NHS treatment, but luckily being able to afford private). I also work in the public sector and have a lot of experience of working with NHS commissioners.

Utilising private resource can absolutely help to reduce waiting lists if used correctly and on a short term basis. I've seen it happen and be very successful (I've also seen it implemented badly)

It could easily be used for cancer follow ups after diagnosis and treatment, ADHD and Autism Assessments, CBT, EMR etc.

Many of the practitioners who work in the private sector, also work for the NHS so in those cases, the standards shouldn't really be any different and can be managed with effective contracts

I am a firm believer in the social safety net and know that most of the stats coming out about the 'skyrocketing benefits bill' are taken from out of context right wing talking points and I absolutely don't think that people should be forced of benefits when there is no treatment available for the needs.

But that doesn't mean I think that we shouldn't find a way of making that treatment available and when it is, expect people to take some responsibility for their own well being.

I work full-time, and I am awarded PIP at the higher rate for mobility and the standard rate for daily living. My benefit is used mainly in two key areas; it pays for my lightweight, powered wheelchair, which in turn allows me to travel to and from work independently. It also enables me to use taxis for part of my journey to work; I live in a rural location without a bus service and I simply wouldn't be able to afford to travel to work without the help that PIP gives me. I also have a cleaner who handles the vacuuming, floor mopping, and bed linen changes, none of which I can manage easily without help.

My PIP is used on all the above, and some months I spend more on transport, ie. taxis, than my PIP gives me.

I hope you don't still believe that someone who doesn't work has a greater need for PIP than a full-time employee?

It's not about her being clever. It's about whether she meets the PIP descriptors and whether she has enough medical evidence to support her claim.

The civil service is full of the consequences of people not knowing what to do with data.

The figures could be counting all diagnoses as separate items, creating huge multiples - somebody like you (or me) with PsA and specific symptoms could easily be recorded as 5-10 things, instead of one person falling apart at the seams.

They did it with a lot of DfE data that's had to be withdrawn, for example. And it doesn't suit the narrative to query 'are we sure that the correct parameters were set?' is this really 2m people under x category, rather than 599,842 who also fall under categories y, z and aa-af and we're counting them more than once?'.

I think op your post makes it quite obvious that you maybe don't fully understand neurodiversity/ mental ill health related conditions/ anxiety.

'Handouts' - which is a term I really hate because many people receiving PIP for these conditions are working tax payers - are being given more for these types of conditions now as we are better at diagnosing them and have more of an understanding socially of the impact on the individual.

I would say I'm a very social person, I struggled awfully with post partum anxiety - the best thing for me was to be out and around people as much as possible even though it was deeply uncomfortable. For people who are struggling with anxiety it's very important that they retain a social life as that challenges the anxiety. It also may be that the anxiety is related to a particular trauma/circumstance that isn't triggered when having coffee with a friend compared to being in a workplace or other setting.

Most people with mental health challenges or disabilities or other long term health conditions are managing these fairly independently- the problem with your post is that you're looking for a 'cure' to 'fix' people, but for many people these are long term conditions they need to live with and find strategies to manage. That is the point of PIP. There is also nothing to stop people who find it beneficial, using their PIP towards the cost of therapy.

You need to be careful with where you're getting information- the daily mail is not a reliable source of information and actually its ironic as the daily mail is in big support of the government's who have chronically underfunded our NHS, and health and wellbeing charities/ Community services for years which is why we're in a mess. That's why these publications place blame on vulnerable people - it takes the heat off them and lines their pockets at the same time.

Most people when concerned about these types of issues are struggling in some way so what I'm going to ask you is, what is it that you are actually concerned about with this? What is it that you're seeing playing out in your local area that's worrying you and led you to post this?

Personally, they should stop attendance allowanxe. Everyone gets some kind of illness or disability as they get older, its costing the tax payers a bomb. Time it was abolished.

We survived a pandemic!

It played out differently depending on how lockdowns impacted people. But lots of evidence building of impact on young people: https://www.kcl.ac.uk/mental-health-impact-covid19-children-young-people-neurodevelopmental-conditions.

We’ve also survived 15 years of “austerity” policies (i.e. sweeping cuts to public services and individual financial support and social care), many of which remain in place under a Labour government.

It’s left huge numbers of families struggling in poverty, homelessness and/or isolation, without adequate support. Local support services and community spaces (e.g. youth, disabled, families) have been decimated.

100% agree access to health services (especially mental health) needs drastic improvement. But we have to accept that some conditions (whether physical, mental or neurological) simply need time to adjust to or heal. You can’t simply take a pill to make back pain go away. There’s no ‘cure’ for children with neurodivergence.

You may believe you know people who ‘cheat the system’ by having a social life (cue pearl clutching). But presumably you don’t know everything that’s going in their life. People can be really struggling (e.g. suicidal ideation or other terrible pain) but mask the effects, put on a brave face and try to feel better.

IMHO, it benefits people (whether they have cancer, muscular-skeletal problems, depression or neurodivergence) to socialise again, if they feel up to it. Better than being stuck isolated at home.

People tokenistically stood on their doorsteps and clapped the NHS and support services during the pandemic. Welfare benefits are part of that. They help people cope and feel cared for.

Plunging even more families (especially those who are disabled or unwell) into poverty and homelessness by cutting their social security payments isn’t the way to fix things.

i have anxiety about pretty much everything. I’m neurodivergent and this js very common for neurodivergent people - I think it is because we all square pegs in round holes, so in other words the environment we live in is not designed for our needs. If I go into Tesco for example, it make me feel ill because of all the people, tannoy announcements, clattering etc

i also have a rather traumatic past - many years of domestic abuse.

Yes but not everybody is disabled in their later lives
My mum died a year ago and in her last 15 years or so she was very disabled, she couldn't walk and needed full time help with everything
My Dad is still alive and although is getting slower due to his age is still very active snd able.

I agree with this. I work in this policy area, it’s a massive looming time bomb but electoral suicide for any party that attempts to address it.

Maybe covid and it's impacts are the cause of the increased anxiety and depression and it is not fixable and just something that the country is going to have to adjust to. If this is the case, I assume the number should stabilise and then start to drop as we get further away from 2010.

The daily benefits bashing thread with extra points for having a daily mail link and not coming to the thread.

But there are not fewer people in employment! - employment is 75% and hasn't changed.

The reduction in payrolled employees does not suggest that fewer people are working on its own. Give that the proportion of people in employment hasn't gone down its more likely to mean that with the increase in minimum wage and the new rules about zero hours contracts coming in that fewer people are having to work two jobs (payroll data counts people twice if they have two jobs).

So while it is likely a mix of both good and bad reasons, the decrease in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing!

I have a relative who needs 24 hour care so is obviously on benefits. I also know of people who claim (effectively "mental health") and get their nails done go out clubbing get botox. The system is a mess!! It is not just money is is time taken out of Adult Social Services Days dealing with imo people who should not receive payments. It is a joke and unsustainable.

. @DontGoJasonWaterfalls They have deleted your post but I wanted to respond

You are fucking done but still trying to shame people for asking sensible questions. Where the money is going to come from. Is the current system is fit for purpose. Those questions don't mean there is a lack of compassion but compassion without realism is pointless.

Having a tantrum doesn't change the fact that there are bills to be paid. Those bills are getting more expensive and the tax base is shrinking. Labour are not growing the economy. They are just taxing everything that can't move and some that can rather that fixing economy. There is only so much you can tax people before the system fully collapses.

We are trying to feeding a growing number of people from decreasing amounts of food. It will not end well.

You can have a tantrum and exit or you can try to be part of the solution

This has just been covered on Radio 4's more or less. The programme is still on as I type. Apparently any award for disability, including any very small award for anxiety or depression, removes the family benefit cap. The removal of the cap can mean an extra £20k per year for the family.

We've collectively all lost perspective on what disabled actually should mean!!!

Go on then what does disabled .mean?

Physical I assume.

Why would payroll steadily climb over a decade, bar the pandemic, and now start dropping? The policies are not conducive to it. Why would a party known as Labour want it to drop?

Agree, It's madness.

Please share with the class

Is the graph in the link incorrect? It seems a pretty basic visual for a couple of numbers.

Why should people with mental health problems not get their nails done or go clubbing or get botox? Could you explain this?

Why are adult social services involved? You don't need an adult social worker to claim PIP?