Benefits explosion- where will it end?

[TheBlueKoala]

"PIP benefits explosion: Anxiety and depression handouts have nearly TRIPLED to £4.3bn since Covid - with autism and ADHD bill hitting £2.2bn and 'back pain' £1.6bn"

Something is not right here. When I have written before on here telling about people I know who claim for anxiety although they have rich social lives (funded by 440£ extra per month from PIP) I've had many people telling me that it's not possible etc. It sure is. How many 16 year olds are claiming PIP for anxiety?

Instead of benefits why not pay for therapy- invest massively in the NHS mental health support so that people with anxiety, adhd and autism can see a therapist regularly to help them. This would make a difference for tje individual and the society. Throwing out money won't.

AINBU- I agree with about
AIBU- No, extra money is always useful

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15510221/PIP-benefits-anxiety-depression-austism-ADHD-pain-Covid-Labour.html

My situation is similar to @bestcatlife ,i sympathise, I have been diagnosed, and given medication for depression and anxiety many many times, all made me feel a lot worse, because I pretty much know now that it's misdiagnosed autism. I'm in my fifties now and I didn't think I'd still be here, I've managed so far because I have a husband, he's also neuro diverse but massively against pursuing a diagnosis, the wheels are starting to come off now, we have no savings and pensions, but I'm frightened and ashamed to get help because of people like you judgemental and ignorant, therapy is offered and sometimes I've took it up, only for the 'therapist' to sit there whilst I was basically having a breakdown googling support groups whilst sipping a a hot drink, fucking useless. I will need help soon, and I have thought about topping myself many many times, all of which has been documented, I have no answers really but honestly op please keep your mind on your own life and business, you honestly have no fucking idea.

It's a very odd post, almost as if someone has read the descriptors for PIP/DLA and invented a person who just fits neatly into them all, while not really being disabled enough.
I find it strange a young person would be describing themselves and their activities in these ways, and referring to DLA descriptors

It’s the daily mail… a right wing rag that is known to misrepresent and sensationalise stories about benefits to get everyone frothing about supposed benefit scroungers. I haven’t the slightest respect it would take for me to engage in it. HTH

The financial incentives in the current benefits system make that a non starter.

Stop wasting money assessing people with life long and incurable disabilities?

The plan to tighten up the PIP criteria to reduce those claiming it for mental health conditions that can be improved with treatment was a good one.

But it was too blunt. It should have come alongside an 'invest to save' in MH services where people's entitlement was reduced alongside an increase in access to treatment.

So for example - someone is claiming for chronic depression and anxiety but has been on a two year long waiting list for CBT and EMR therapy as well as waiting for an ADHD or autism assessment. They get to remain on PIP until they can access treatment - they then get a number of months to undertake treatment before re-assessment. If people are offered treatment and refuse to engage meaningfully with it, then entitlement ceases.

The investment is used to purchase additional capacity from the private sector to try and get the waiting lists down.

Overtime, it would save money in the NHS and also massively reduce the benefits bill as well as increasing national productivity with more people being available for work.

The same principle can be applied to a lot of physical conditions that people claim for (knee ops etc).

That's not what I'm doing at all. This is all anecdotal - "I know someone on Pip who goes on holiday abroad." Are disabled people not allowed to have holidays? It's perfectly conceivable that Pip isn't the only income coming into the home of families on benefits.

I have a friend who has 3 disabled kids - she doesn't work but her husband does. Should they sit at home 365 days a year because they claim benefits for their disabled kids?

Disabled people are allowed to have a life too and I say that as someone who doesn't go abroad and doesn't have a very active social life

For people gaming the system - there are many more that don't. Hope that clarifies my position

Very mean. I think the poster was just trying to say that there are many many of us getting on with it day after day who struggle with depression and motivation every single bloody day but just get on with it without claiming benefits. i agree with the poster that having the structure of work and the social interactions is beneficial.

It might be the 'Fail' but the costs of the welfare system are out of control. Tax payers have as much right as the users of the system to talk about about it.

I have a feeling we're talking at cross purposes here; I fully support that.

You have to incentivise employers to want to hire disabled people.

Thats can be accomplished by tax incentives. These exist in other countries, so no reason why they can't be used in the UK.

One thing however needs to be said:

Businesses are not charities. They have a bottom line and need to survive by competing and being profitable. Using tax inventives for hiring and adjustments means that it can be workable to hire disabled people for some businesses, but you still have to add value to the bottom line as an individual under those conditions. You still have to be competent at your job after those adjustments.

I work in an CMHT so I know what they do
In our area GP practice nurses give depot injections.

Of course I realise that in mental health as in every other illness people might be so severely affected that they are unable to work however many people with very serious illness like treatment resistant schizophrenia and on a depot actually do hold down various jobs and enjoy them.

Recovering from an acute severe episode of mental illness is not so very different from healing a broken bone. It requires time and appropriate treatment and there can be setbacks a complications with a broken bone too but there are indications of improvement that can be tracked and many services are moving to measurement based care now to formalise this.
It’s not true to say that no time frame can be given.
eg Services such as first episode psychosis provide a 3 year time limited pathway during which time they think it likely people will recover or come to the end of interventions.

Staff in a CMHT who know the person would be better placed than a random benefit assessor to say what the persons prognosis and recommended interventions are.
We have an integrated IPS service that has helped lots of service users back to work and they have been very glad of it. I think it is a very valid role of a CMHT to help a person to go back to work and many people want to even after years out.

I am mainly thinking of the army of young people with anxiety and depression who we get referred and aren’t able to take on (due to being full up caring for the people with schizophrenia etc) who are at home on benefits and it’s not clear how they will ever get a pathway into work. Many are mid 20s to early 30s living at home and barely or never worked. There is an urgent need for some kind of programme for people like these and a bit of a stick might be needed as well as a carrot as many have no motivation to try as they have all expenses covered by parents and benefits. It’s often their worried parents trying to get help for them and the person themselves not frankly appearing very fussed.

The issue I have is not arguing about who or what conditions are covered - it is purely we can’t afford it. Every single person claiming PIP or other benefits might be completely genuine and desperately need the funds but there is literally no money to pay it. The economy can’t cope now (not has it ever really been able to cope ) with simply paying people money out of funds for relatively small economic payback. Economic Growth only happens with investment but there is none as that money is just going to people to maintain the status quo. this is a problem of the welfare state and whilst it was fine in the 1950’s when very little was being paid out, it is now too big to manage. It is just a paradox that is unsolvable. Things can not realistically ever get better at this point. I can’t see a solution as it’s a vicious cycle

I hope someone has already pointed out that your chart is misleading. PIP didn’t exist until 2013, the “explosion” time period is mostly the transition of adults from DLA to PIP. The chart makes it look like claimants and costs have skyrocketed.

I didn’t. You said idiots would be jumping on the thread. I was just letting you know I wasn’t one. HTH

@PurpleLovecats , I'm so sorry that you're going through this, and thank you for giving such a frank and open account of your struggles.

❤

Therapy services would be more expensive...can't you understand that people are sacrificed and then heaped with guilt about claiming breadline welfare support ...that is far lower than comparable countries
Aways worked, worked during and before university.. it doesn't take a genius to see there is no "explosion"...there is a huge rise in retirement age, covid sickness, enormous NHS delays - 3 years + wait in my experience. Fights to have SEN supported at school....FUTURE costs are the result. If you ever voted for the tax cut / austerity political Parties....these are YOUR chickens coming home to roost

Beneficial to some people.

I honestly don't care if it's mean, I'm sick of seeing people do the pick me dance to prove they're a good disabled and not one of them lazy workshy ones.

No thanks. I just thought thos was an open forum for people to express opinions. I am actually having a pretty shit day and feel like everyone would be happier without me around. So your comment was perfectly timed and confirmed that everytime I speak I piss someone off

It will maybe end when we tackle the causes of poor mental health.

Posts like this do not explain how we as a country can afford such sky high unemployment and benefit rates, which are still sharply increasing and show no sign of slowing down

This is a financial question, not an emotional one

So what's the alternative for these unemployable disabled people who are deemed too disabled for employers to have to pity-hire, but not disabled enough for benefits?

So what's the financial solution? Financial euthanasia? Letting people starve for financial purposes?

This is just untrue we can afford it...we are giving huge gifts to corporations who pay no tax, benefits to support poorly paid work and stupidity like HS2 abandoned projects etc etc...tax avoidance would cover the cost beautifully

ADHD is in fact a registered disability so swivel on that