To think school should have informed us of child's set?

[NotTonightDeidre]

DD is in Y10 & we've just received GCSE predicted grades.
She's been predicted a 4 in her MFL.

This has come as a bit of a surprise as she was working at greater depth all the way through Y9.

I've found out today that she's been placed in a foundation level class and not higher tier. When I asked why, it basically came down to number of students.

They're now saying DD has "switched off". However, she's been telling me she's frustrated that others are messing about, don't listen and don't understand basic language concepts.

AIBU to think school should have told us if they were putting her in foundation tier? I'm really quite angry about the situation.

She's a bright kid & predicted 6/7/8 in her other subjects.

Language teaching is often v poor and a lot of my DC’s peers did much worse than other gcses. Ie 5 when everything else 7+. If your DC is keen help them at home and then push (with evidence) for them to go up. I did that and DC managed a 7 now doing A level. If your DC not so bothered possibly not worth it?

It's more the fact they put her in a foundation class from the outset. They have 2 higher classes and 2 foundation. They had too many kids at greater depth & put some in foundation without discussing with or informing parents.

If she was in the higher tier class she'd be doing better.

Has your dd never mentioned anything about it before this?

At that age I would expect my dc to tell me rather than the school telling me directly

Well I guess you can try to push them to move her. If they won’t the only option is she does some extra work to demonstrate she is capable. DC had a mixed class with foundation and higher. They wanted him to do foundation but he worked at it and got v high marks so they had to move him up. They can move them to higher in year 11 but DC need to start working now.

I don’t think they have to inform you..

I voted wrong. YABU. Surely your daughter could have told you….

pathetic. get a tutor as it's unlikely the school will do dick all to resolve the staffing/number of pupils conundrum.
you're daughter though should have told you about this a while back.

for MFL at gcse it’s all down to the number of kids that take it.

in my school the less popular languages often had only one group at gcse with everyone in together.

presumably they have looked at the number of students who took the option, noticed that there were too many for one group and split it in two.

could you ask the school to unbalance the groups? So move her to the higher group even if there’s more people on it?

I assume they didn't inform parents because they didn't want push back, which in a way I can understand. They can't magic up more spaces so if they have 5 - 10 too many kids who could be in depth, they won't have anywhere to move them if the parents complain. But though I can see that perspective, I agree with you. How are you supposed to support your children if you aren't given that sort of information. It really gives the lie to there actually being a school/parent partnership.

I’d speak to the school, that’s not on.

First of all, a 4 is a perfectly acceptable GCSE pass for MFL especially if it's not a subject your daughter is going to pursue at college.

Secondly, it sounds like you were cross with her about her predicted grade, so rather than accept it's not her strongest subject your daughter is deflecting blame for her predicted grade on to everyone around her - the class is disruptive, the teacher is crap etc.

Just let her get a 4 in the foundation paper rather than push for the higher, and give her breathing space to concentrate on the core GCSEs like maths, English and science.

I’d be fuming. Is it just a lower set or are they only allowed to take a foundation paper (therefore taught less content and limited to a grade 5)? Do you have this reasoning in writing? Maybe email them to discuss so you have a paper trail then I’d approach head of year:head of school to complain.

I would speak to the school if I thought my child would definitely work hard and achieve a higher grade. Your DD needs to be on board with it though.

She should have told you herself of course but yanbu for being angry about this. I got put into the lowest stream when I moved across the country and started in a different school. My dad was very angry and made them move me to the top stream (he was a parent governor so had pull plus people tend to do what he says when he puts his dog collar on!).
The problem is, if there isn't room then how can they move your DD? But they could at least put her in for the higher paper if she is willing to put in the effort to teach herself.

She could have told you
Youve had 6 months to chat to her about school and discover this information
To be in the lower set she must have been in the lower half of the class
If she’s expected a grade 4 this isn’t due only to “switching off”
Perhaps her lower ability would have as problematic to students in the upper set as the disinterested students are to her

I wouldn't be impressed if a child who was perfectly able of achieving a higher grade was put into a lower set just because they couldn't manage class sizes better.

She'll have that low grade on her certificate for ever and it will always annoy her.

I would absolutely be going into school and asking them why on earth they put a child working in greater depth into a foundation class - if they don't have enough teachers, remove the foreign language requirement from the GCSE choices. I would be reminding the school that they have a duty of care to ensure that she receives a suitable education.

This is terrible advice and nothing in the op suggests this is the case.

She’s predicted a 4 so it makes sense for her to do the Foundation paper, and her teachers say she is not engaged with the subject so she’s not showing any sign of motivation to elevate that grade - so it seems like a sensible decision to me. She can still be a bright kid who is not as strong in some subjects. In fact it may lessen the stress for her not to be aiming for top grades in everything. I think choose your battles here. Teachers aren’t out to get kids, but they do have to make decisions based on the information, data and child in front of them.

Presumably the school want their results to be as strong as possible. They've had to draw a line where there is a split in ability and your daughter is on the lower tier side of that line. If she were predicted a higher grade they'd have her in the higher tier and someone else would have found themselves in the other group.

Does she have any intention to continue languages behind GCSE? I'm assuming not

It's been way longer than I care to think about, but I did languages at GCSE and A Level (and seriously considered degree level) and there is quite a jump once you get to GCSE teaching for the higher levels, with various tenses being taught for fluency etc.

I don't know what the cut offs for papers are but its better she attain a solid 4/5 in the foundation paper, than whatever the upgraded equivalent is in the higher paper because she doesnt meet the threshold for the mark scheme (disclaimer - its been a long time since I did GCSEs!)

I do agree that at her age your daughter should have made you aware.

I would ask for her to be moved and in the mean time, get her a private tutor.

Some people have to be at the bottom set and if she was in the bottom of 30 that’s understandable but ultimately the teacher needs to differentiate as well and if her learning needs not being met the school are failing her.

@VeterinaryCareAssistant This is really poor advice and a poor mindset.

A 4 in any subject is only a good grade if they achieved it after working at THEIR full potential. Clearly this is not the case for OP's DC.

I would be annoyed at the school and disappointed that DC hadn't mentioned it sooner

It is somewhat ridiculous they don't at least have a 'crossover' set where they expect some to do foundation and some higher but they don't know who does which yet. Especially in year 10.

I would expect it to be your daughter who told you but it isn’t appropriate for the school to make her do foundational level if she can do better and not push her to her potential.
you should speak to the school about it, see if they would allow her to do the higher if she starts showing motivation and get her a tutor outside of school.

This is a year ten pupil. I would expect the child to inform their parents when asked. The only exceprion to this is if its a mid-year move from.one set to another but if this happened in September thats just the numbers game.