To think school should have informed us of child's set?

[NotTonightDeidre]

DD is in Y10 & we've just received GCSE predicted grades.
She's been predicted a 4 in her MFL.

This has come as a bit of a surprise as she was working at greater depth all the way through Y9.

I've found out today that she's been placed in a foundation level class and not higher tier. When I asked why, it basically came down to number of students.

They're now saying DD has "switched off". However, she's been telling me she's frustrated that others are messing about, don't listen and don't understand basic language concepts.

AIBU to think school should have told us if they were putting her in foundation tier? I'm really quite angry about the situation.

She's a bright kid & predicted 6/7/8 in her other subjects.

A 4 is not a good grade if she is capable of more. I would ask for her to be given the ability to do the higher paper. There are things you can do for free to assist her. Do you speak the language yourself? If so get some past papers so you can work on it with her and get her doing duolingo lessons on a daily basis.

I think it is just a general part of the lack of communication between schools and parents..

I never remember my parents being told about what set I was in, for any of my school life... (which was a good thing because I stupidly went to the teacher and requested to move to a lower set in languages so that I could be in the same class as my best friend and someone I fancied, despite my scores being high enough for the higher sets...)

I'm not saying it is good that they didn't tell you, just that it is normal. An example of the general bad and low communication standards in secondary education.

Luckily it has come to light early enough that you can likely solve it. I'm not sure my parents ever knew that I only got a C in languages because that is the maximum I could have got after stupidly moving to the lower groups.

If there are only a specific amount of places in the higher sets, additional places cannot magically appear. Demanding, as someone suggested, that someone from the upper set swops places is pointless. Parents don't decide tiers or sets. There may be natural movement of someone from the higher set to your daughter and vice versa. This has happened when i have taught gcse mfl. Have you not been given an indication in y10 before this of your daughter's possible gcse grade? Grade 5 is possible on foundation. Contact the school with your concerns. Is the teacher who predicted 7 plus still teaching her now?

The school did tell you – via your DD. If she didn't tell you, that's on her. But she's Y10 and this is secondary school, not primary – pretty much all communication at classroom level is done via the students, big ticket stuff is done via apps like Edulink.

As a former mainstream secondary teacher (MFL!) I find this appalling. Your daughter has effectively been binned off for no good reason. Why on earth didn’t they make it 3 top sets and 1 foundation!? So many schools would be crying out for “too many” on GCSE languages.

I would be contacting the head of MFL, your daughter’s head of year, and the head teacher to ask for an explanation. Particularly referencing the encouragement she received when choosing her options! The school has really done a bad thing here.

MFL teacher here. What's this Foundation/Higher class nonsense? Every class has a mixture of abilities and I have rarely taught a class where every student has been entered for the same tier. The teacher needs to differentiate to accommodate every child in the room.

Do you really think that a grade 4 ( isn't that a pass anyway? ) or a language GCSE is going to make the slightest difference ? If being on a CV would annoy her so much leave it off.

Ok when when your child has a r in French for example will you still think it's that important once they've got a 1st in physics degree? Just to put into proportion

The decision is not final in year 10. She could yet demonstrate a commitment to the subject and take the higher papers. Ask the school how she might achieve that, given how well she had performed previously.

4 is a terrible grade for a child who can do better and who wants to, and had been inadvertently discouraged by school’s poor admin. Most decent parents encourage their kids to achieve their potential, not settle for the bare minimum, if the child wants to achieve more and has the raw skills to do so.

Why would the school do it?! At this stage of the game then l would expect a child to tell their parents

This is my area so to answer some points:

Yes a 5 is the top grade in F.

I wouldn’t say someone achieving a 4 should do higher paper actually. But the suggestion is that the DD can and should be doing better, so considering the H paper is indicated here. But she needs to be achieving a strong 5 in her current set.

I have certainly taught setted classes in KS4 – if we had enough students taking MFL we were often able to do this. I have also taught a mixed group tho and that’s perfectly possible. Tbh the difference is more about skills and exam technique than actual learning IMHO for MFL – you need more vocab for H but you can teach H and F in one class for sure. Maybe setting different HW. The topics are the same after all, but the exam tasks are quite different. And year 10 is plenty of time to change.

I love that you Dad advocated for you!

But they have informed you OP……….they told your DD obviously with the intention of her coming home and telling you.

Talk to the school about why she’s been put in for foundation, when she was on track for the higher paper last year.

If they don’t want to move her, request that she be put in for the higher paper and get a tutor. The content of the foundation paper will be different though, so make sure that any support you get for her will cover the content needed for the higher.

From year 7 it was as always my child who told me of settings/ group changes. They are more than old enough by year 10 to inform their parents themselves.

So there are two sets of children achieving 7+...
Then a massive gap in ability to ones only capable of 4/5?

Are you sure she's not in a lower set as she's actually struggling and not engaging? Or due to her timetable?

I don't think schools ever go out of their way to specifically inform parents of their child's set do they?

Are you saying that you believe your daughter should not be predicted a 4 and that they've done that just to be able to put her in the lower set?

Grade 4 for is only acceptable if it’s the best the student can do.

It sounds like OP’s daughter could do much better so it’s totally unacceptable.

Having been in this situation myself my poor GCSE result in one subject due to a similar situation affected my confidence and had further implications in my life choices and further study.

Some schools really let children down.

I remember being put in the lower tier for maths. Sure, maths wasn't my strong point but my goodness, the stuff given was young primary stuff, when I was 12/13. I used to help the other kids in my class because our teacher was a nasty woman who would belittle students for asking for help, plus talking as bored out of my mind. I was a good kid in every other subject and had lovely teacher reports.
The school told my parents about my behaviour (honestly, it wasn't anything more than chatting and helping other students) and when I showed my dad my level of work he understood where I was coming from. He went to the school and asked to be moved up a set. Said even if struggling, I'd be learning something I didn't already know and better to push me forward. They refused flat to move me up a class, citing my 'trouble behaviour' as the reason why. I ended up doing maths at night class when I left school instead.

It is disheartening to see this is still happening with students 40 years later. Sorry OP, fight it for your daughters sake.

well I'd def be annoyed if this was my ds (currently in y8 and doing well at MFL). That said i think it must be tricky for schools generally with limited number of classes and presumably a few kids that are of middling ability. As PP said

So rather than talking about sets, you should be asking the school why in Year 9 she was assessed at working at GCSE level already and likely to get 7+ but a few months (in school teaching time) later she is only predicted a 4 at GCSE

I think this is a better approach than complaining that she isnt in a high enough set. In the meantime I would be telling DC to impress their teacher in their class as much as possible IF they are keen on the subject.

Plenty of ways to show proof. Completing several past papers in timed exam conditions at home, marking them at home and then asking fir a meeting with the head of department. Bring along to the meeting the papers, revision resources made at home, assessment scores in lesson, Duolingo score- exactly what I did for my cousin's child who had a similar situation. Giving up and not working isn't the answer, proving the school wrong can be done.
The school have made a decision, it isn't set in stone yet! Still time to move to the higher paper and class, but it requires some proactive measures.

If you can afford it, get a tutor, or at least find a small language group. Your daughter is right when she complains about bad behaviour and lack of concentration in class not helping her progress. Unmotivated students can wreck a class.

As an ex-MFL teacher, it is actually really common for bright, able students to score 1-2 grades below what they get in English/Humanities subjects due to incredibly harsh and unfair grading from the exam boards. I can say from experience this is true and my school would only support entry into the higher tier if the student repeatedly demonstrated achieving a solid grade 6 or above in class assessments and mock exams.

Unfortunately the cut off mark on the higher tier papers is so strict, and if DD has a better chance of securing a 4/5 on the foundation paper than potentially getting a 3 or a U on the higher tier due to the tiny grade boundary allowed, she is better off doing the foundation paper. Lots of parents think Foundation means worse, but it isn’t- it’s just a different distribution of the grades, usually is slightly less content than the higher tier paper, and can remove some stress and anxiety about getting to the grade 4 on higher.

If you are concerned, I’d suggest a calm conversation with you, DD and her teacher to discuss what she needs to do to improve and have the chance at the higher paper or moving up to to the higher tier class. Offer to supervise her sitting practice papers at home to revise and practice the skills, or see if they are running booster sessions to build on what they’re doing in class.

This happened to me. GCSE science. Two sets upper and lower. I was put in lower despite being a mid to high student: they said too many upper students and people with surnames near the end just got shoved to the lower tier. I looked around and it was right about alphabetical order. A disgrace. Anyway I was so pissed off I worked extra hard and got an A. I’m still fuming about it now. If they didn’t have space in upper, they needed to make a new class