To think school should have informed us of child's set?

[NotTonightDeidre]

DD is in Y10 & we've just received GCSE predicted grades.
She's been predicted a 4 in her MFL.

This has come as a bit of a surprise as she was working at greater depth all the way through Y9.

I've found out today that she's been placed in a foundation level class and not higher tier. When I asked why, it basically came down to number of students.

They're now saying DD has "switched off". However, she's been telling me she's frustrated that others are messing about, don't listen and don't understand basic language concepts.

AIBU to think school should have told us if they were putting her in foundation tier? I'm really quite angry about the situation.

She's a bright kid & predicted 6/7/8 in her other subjects.

Those saying the DD should have said.
Some schools aren't very open about these things, and some kids are a bit dopey and don't pick up if the teacher says something 'in passing' rather than 'right listen up, this is really important ...'

Dd also may have been embarrassed

I'd ask what her target grade is (opposed to her current predicted grade), as based on her other subjects I'd be quite surprised if it's a 4. The highest grade available on a foundation paper is a 5, so I would be asking why she's being limited in this way.
However - I would also do this without too much elaboration to DD, as she also needs to understand that she has to 'earn' that place in the higher set, rather than get it purely on the basis of data if she's not applying herself.

The reason DD didn't tell me is that she initially didn't know/realise.

She took the language because she's good at it & had been told by her Y9 teacher (as had we at parents evening) that she was already working at GCSE level in Y9 & would be targeting 7+

She's demotivated because the work is having to be explained repeatedly to those around her.

I didn't see any warning signs as she consistently does homework & gets positive reward points every lesson.

Demand that one of the students in the higher sets gives up their place for her.

Or alternatively, if she's as good as you say, she will soon vastly outperform her peers, distinguish herself in exams and re-establish herself as a set 1 student. She'll learn from her brief sojourn in set 3 to stay on top of her learning of she wants to stay at the top.

Is this a big school? Or do they mandate an MFL? four classes = 100+ in the year taking MFL which tbh is amazing (unless as I say it’s mandated for almost all).

I would talk to the school about what she can do to move up to the higher group. And get her to do some work at home. Even if you don’t know much Spanish, there are excellent revision guides and practice workbooks.

If she is really bothered you could engage a tutor who will be able to go over the higher content and more to the point skills she will miss.

She can get a grade 5 at F tho and it’s a lot more accessible (MFL is my subject) so unless she wants to continue MFL post 16, that may be all she needs tbh.

ETA sorry @NotTonightDeidre read your latest update; it sounds as tho she should be targeting a higher grade for sure. SO I would approach the school to ask what she can do to move up. If she is in year 10 there is plenty of time to resolve this.

So rather than talking about sets, you should be asking the school why in Year 9 she was assessed at working at GCSE level already and likely to get 7+ but a few months (in school teaching time) later she is only predicted a 4 at GCSE. A high achieving child in a foundation group would be predicted at 5. So what has happened? It sounds like she's gone backwards. It also means it will be hard to get her moved, if this is appropriate, as the school would argue that she's not even working at the top of the foundation ability range.

I also agree with others that it's really poor to set to rigidly so early on, but I doubt the school will change their policy now. (My DC was only split for higher/foundation MFL at Christmas of Year 11)

This is the disgraceful state of state education

Children should be pulled upwards, motivated, given the chance to do their best

This happened to my son - put into bottom sets by mistake then took a long time to convince them he should be aiming for 8s/9s!

I agree that if your daughter was working and achieving well for MFL in Y9, and being told she was targeting 7+, then she should be given the opportunity to get there, whether that’s in this class or the other. Ideally you would have known about this from the start, but there’s nothing you can do about it now. If I were you, I’d approach the school from the perspective of, “We both know that in Y9 DD showed great aptitude for this subject, and she is more than capable of taking the higher paper and achieving well on it. How can all of us (school, you and DD) work together to see if we can make this happen?” Your dd will need to be on board and ready to show that she can do it, and the school needs to show that they’ll allow her the opportunity to prove herself - no final decisions about which paper they sit have to be made until much closer to the exams (I feel like it’s around March of Y11 but could be wrong). She needs access to the higher content though so that she has the opportunity to learn it, and that’s where the school needs to either move her (unlikely if she’s not currently predicted the highest available grade on the foundation paper), or advise her/you about how she can study this herself (or if you’re lucky, they could trial her with some higher work and see how she gets on with it).

That's particularly appalling, OP. If you'd known they weren't able to teach her at her level she could have chosen a subject where both she and the school had the capacity to get her a good grade. They've pretty much thrown a subject for her.

And if it is mandated for all/most, having over 50% of the year group capable of working at higher level (unless this is a selective school) is also pretty amazing.

There’s a huge crisis right now in MFL teaching, I think they’re offering huge bursaries to persuade some to train. At my DC’s school they had to drop French because they didn’t have teachers so they now only have Spanish. They have 2 Spanish teachers remaining because one retired and one moved back home to have a child. 2 teachers across 5 years- you do the maths. This has meant they now only let children in the top two sets study it at GCSE.

"What does my daughter need to do to move up a set?" Is the correct question to ask the school.

I'm assuming it's not 'switch off, not do the work and fail to be working at the highest grade on foundation', so they're probably going to need some evidence that she wants to and is capable of it.

This. It's on your dd not the school.

The school may not have told DD either.

I would take it up with the school if your daughter is a hard worker and keen to do better. Whether she should have told you herself or not a is a bit by the by. She's 14 and we all sometimes don't do things we maybe should have. You want to help her now. So yes I would speak to the school and look to find a way to help her fulfil her potential in the subject.

This attitude is really poor and totally lacking in aspiration! A 4 is not a great great grade it's a scraped pass. If she has the potential to get a grade like a 6 or a 7 and is willing to work for that, it should be encouraged.

I wouldn't accept one of my kids just being told oh don't worry about it accept getting a 4!!

I don’t think my dd’s school ever informed parents directly of what set teenagers were put in. For a start it’s not a joint decision or the opening of a discussion, it’s the school’s decision, and the teenagers themselves should be telling their parents.

That said, it’s perfectly reasonable to contact them now you do know and discuss your concerns. It also could be / could have been brought up by you at parents evening.

This does sound wrong though - for her to be told 7+ in year 9 and then put in a foundation set.

If your daughter is working at a grade 4 or above then they would have to move her to the higher paper. The school made a decision, but your daughter then decided to make a decision that kept her stuck there. Switching off and not working, not talking to you, means she is preventing herself from proving the school wrong.

It’s hard to prove a school wrong when the school has gone out of its way to make a subject as boring and frustrating as possible and not even bothered to tell you this is almost entirely because you have been put in a bottom set, so you don’t even realise that working hard could enable you to escape it, rather than find it getting forever more dull and frustrating the further ahead you are than the rest of the class.

I agree with @Lillers and that's the line I would be taking with the school. They should be able to turn this around and make the numbers work somehow. I'd be really upset if my child had gone from doing level 7 work on the higher tier to a 4 on a foundation tier. I'd want to impress on my child that simply feeling demotivated isn't good enough, she needs to start working at her previous level to show she merits being in a higher set, otherwise why would the school move her? I would be making an appointment with school to discuss it and how best to move forward.

Moving from the higher paper to the foundation one is a huge leap. My son was moved up and down the sets depending on how well he was able to process the work in class, but it was only within the top two sets, never to the lower tier. His teacher would ring me to advise that this was planned, so it doesn't seem outwith the realms of possibility that school would let you know they were taking this step.

I’d push for her to move up a set if putting her in foundation was purely bureaucratic and not based on her ability. And now she demotivated and regressing because of a disruptive class, less able class.

You have to be pushy with schools and if she enjoys the subject and was doing well in it, and is still doing well in other subjects (so can’t be her own general motivation) it’s blocking her route to A level.

Isn’t 5 the most you can get on a foundation paper, however hard you work?

Ask for a meeting with the teacher, subject lead, and head of year. Too many pupils is not a good enough reason. Ask them what they intend to do to ensure your daughter is able to take the correct exams commensurate with her abilities. Ask them to provide evidence to justify why it was her that has been put in with the foundation class. You don't need names but they should be able to produce the data to show that her performance in MFL over the last three years justifies why she is doing the foundation course.

Additionally, your DD needs to re-engage if she wants to move to the higher class.

We had a similar situation with DD in English. Too many bright kids apparently and I suspect her being one of the youngest meant she was put in a lower ability set. I met with her teacher and head of dept and said I was concerned that she was being held back - friends in other classes were doing much more in depth work. They reassessed and by the end of the year she was in the top set. A grade 9 in language and an 8 in literature at GCSE rather proved my point!