To think people over 80 should not drive

[TorridAntelope]

I don't care how bright and sparky they are, the stats show they are dangerous

Driverless cars may or may not become widely available; it's by no means certain that they will. Whether many people can afford them is more relevant though.
I agree with your second point.

You will get outrage from some about patronising/infantilising older people. But my observation has been that as your mental and physical faculties decline, you do become more childlike.

Obviously there are many older people who retain all their faculties and retain capacity up to the end. But most of us who live to our late 80s will require some degree of being looked after, and if we experience cognitive decline, may well end up regressing to toddlerdom.

Both MIL and FIL were fantastically independent up to their last year or so, then experienced rapid cognitive decline. It was heart breaking to see and meant the family had to push then to a)accept more support and b)recognise that they had to give up driving.

We would never have got involved in their decision making in the past, but there came a point where "respecting their wishes" would have been dangerous for them and for other people. We didn't force them to do anything but did put pressure on, particularly about the driving.

Shakespeare wrote about the 7th age of man being a "second childishness" and I was reminded of that at the very end with MIL. I was very happy to be able to spend time with her and care for her in her last months, but it did remind me of looking after a much loved and very determined toddler.

This is my experience too.
There are some exceptions who have excellent self awareness and are highly responsible and unselfish but many don't seem to be. My MIL is a terrible driver now and keeps bashing her car but she continues to drive. My parents, with lots of encouragement, have moved somewhere much smaller and with super easy acces to everything.

I agree there needs to be a proper examination and eye sight tested really regularly, not just the GP saying do you feel safe driving because obviously most people will say yes.
On the other hand I do think young drivers are worse and the way I see some of them behave makes me wonder how there aren't more accidents.

There is no test after a certain age with the GP in the UK.

80 is a good cut-off age, I agree it should be banned after that. Old people get a free bus pass so they can use that or get taxis.

Many 80 year olds are quite capable of driving. I am not arguing for a cut off age. But I don't think the fact that your independence depends on driving should allow you to continue when you are unsafe.

I think a re-test would be fairer, though most would find it very stressful. And I wonder how many of us would pass a re-test at any age!

I think there should be an absolute cut-off, then there is no ambiguity, no 'yes buts' and no anecdotal tales of 90-year-olds being excellent drivers when that is (a) extremely unlikely and (b) liable to change overnight.
you simply can't prioritise the feelings and wants of one group over the danger to another.
It is a massive wrench to give up the car, we went through it with my dad, but I think if my parents had known that he would have had to give up his car when he turned 80 they may (and only may!) have given some thought to how they were going to get around after that, and moved somewhere more suitable earlier in dad's retirement. As it is, there's only my mum left now, and she is completely dependent on myself and my sister to take her anywhere.
We all think we are going to be sensible but I don't think any of our parents set out to be a burden on their children, yet here we are 🙄

How can you have an absolute cut-off when some people are unable to drive safely from the word go (eg due to eyesight), and others can drive safely to 100! Of course it needs to be based on individuals. Safety can change overnight for any age eg the thread about the man who had a seizure on the train and turned out to have a brain tumour.

All we need us for medical staff to do their job and report people to the DVLA who are unable to drive safely, or who at least need to be retested - eg if you have glaucoma in both eyes you have to do a DVLA eye test.

All of which cost money and time. It's a balance of probabilities thing. There will be 14-year-olds who are perfectly capable of driving but they are not allowed to because they are too young. 80+ in general is too old. Statistically you will not be as strong, capable and reactive as you need to be to drive safely.
I honestly don't see the issue - I would have been delighted with such a law as it took me 5 years to get the car keys off my dad, who only gave up when he actually wrote off his car (no other driver involved, thank goodness).
Anyone who thinks they or their parents are as capable a driver at 80 as they were at 50 are seriously deluded.
It's a pragmatic solution, but for some reason we are reluctant to stop these drivers - who are a danger to others as well as themselves - from hitting the roads. Why?

My DM is 84 and still drives. She’s safer than most younger people. She has tests as she has glaucoma.

On what basis are you stating she's safer than most younger people? That's probably complete nonsense.

It totally depends on the individual. My DD’s friends added 17-21 have had several crashes - would you ban them all too? Whereas my dad, who’s 84 and a former army driving instructor, has had none. He’s still an excellent driver.

ageism isn’t helpful.

I'm torn on this. On the one hand I had a head on collision with an 84 year old who had eyesight problems and drove on the wrong side of the road into the front of my car. On the other hand, we are now in our 60's and will have to move in the next few years as we are completely dependent on driving as we are rural. I am hoping that along the way we will be able to get a self driving car, but this isn't guaranteed. I do think the over 70s should have to pass a medical to continue driving.

There is no evidence that all elderly drivers are dangerous. Some are, just as many younger drivers are. The most dangerous are the young men.

It isn't the job of medical staff to report their patients to the DVLA. There is no driving medical over 70/75 in the UK. NHS GPs do not have time to do this anyway.
If a private test with a doctor and a driving instructor were arranged, that would be a reasonable and much more rigorous test.

I'm sure some 14 year olds are capable of driving quite safely. But we don't allow them to because it would be dangerous. Just as it is to allow over 80s to drive. There's a reason car insurance premiums skyrocket when someone passes 80 years of age.

Spend the money saved on not buying/running a car and use it for taxis instead??

A "re test" wouldn't have to be the same/full test as when someone first learns to drive and gets a licence.

The re-test could be a lot simpler, including a sight test and maybe a shortened version of the full test, i.e. just say a 15-20 minute drive around the test centre area just to check on general ability to drive, no need for the sat-nav part of the test etc.

Its difficult, there is such poor public transpirt outside large cities the would need to be addressed first. DH stopped driving 5 years ago due to sight loss, the public transport in our small market town is one bus per hour and to get to a hospital appointment 8 miles away takes 2 hours . I would say there shoulds be mandatory eye sight tests every 3 years post 75 . There is a systmen for this already as people who do have type one diabetes for example or sight loss have to do one every 3 years. The onus however is on the person to report or declare sight issues, dibetes on insulin , fits , cva , sleep aponea to the dvla. HCP advise patients when to do this but cant force them to. Perhaps this needs to change but is limited by patinet confidentuality. The sensible / honest ones like my DH stop before they are told too. Hes 52 not 80 BTW. For those saying over 60, state retirment age is now 68 sonsurlynif we are all fit enough to work to this age, the assumption should be we can drive.

The bigger problem is people not getting the medical advice so not knowing they have a problem needing to report to the DVLA or needing adjustment

I think there should be a requirement for an eye test every 1-2 years for everyone one that has a driving license. My sister passed her driving test including passing the eye test at 18 without needing glasses. At 25 she went for an eye test and found her eyesight has deteriorated to the point of needing glasses now to drive. She marvelled at now she could see road signs much earlier and other people's number plates. Her eyesight had just slowly deteriorated so she hadn't noticed and only drove familiar routes.
A friend discovered he needed glasses after starting uni and realised he couldn't see other people's faces clearly. It was only when he was seeing unfamiliar faces as his brain was filling in the gaps with people he knew.

That said, I do think that medical staff miss the impact of conditions on driving. I was diagnosed with a reportable condition, however, I was not informed that it was a reportable condition and being unwell it wasn't something I thought about checking until a year later I needed to renew my driving licence and redid the medical form and saw that it included. I've had a medical licence ever since and Drs have always been happy to sign me off fit to drive but that might not be the case for all. I think it would be good if you had to complete this form more regularly. As more and more people move to plastic licences people are having to do this every 10 years but my parents still only have paper licences and have never had to complete the form.

There are also transient issues that can impact driving which is also a big issue. There was a story on a drs biography where he finished his shift sat in his car and then woke up when his alarm to get up for work the next day went off. He had spent the entire night in the hospital car park. It was just good that he had fallen asleep before starting his journey home. I got unwell in my last pregnancy where I couldn't stay awake. This required two hospital admissions, it was only my consultant that mentioned driving to me and that was when I arrived for an appointment looking awful and barely able to stay awake and she wanted to make sure I hadn't driven there. I hadn't, I had voluntarily made the decision that I wasn't fit to drive until it was resolved and had arranged for my dad to drive me to the appointment.

If I was retested now, it would be a different test to the test I passed in 1985, ive still got over 2 decades until im anywhere near 80

I didn't use a sat nav in 1985 and did a 3 point turn in my test, no theory test - apart from 2/3 questions at the end of my practice test.

A refresher course for a fork lift truck is done on a regular occurrence for insurance purposes - why should drivers of cars be any different

PPs are concentrating on eyesight, but that's only one part of the complex equation - and possible the only one that's redeemable to a point (by wearing glasses).
My dad had a very weak shoulder so could not perform tight turns around corners and could not look behind him when reversing.
His mobility was also very poor and his feet got 'stuck' on or under the pedals (!).
He was also stone deaf so lacked awareness of others around him.
All in all, a complete liability. But his eyesight was probably OK as he changed glasses regularly.

Katypp

In a previous role I had a few people telling me themselves or concerning relatives - that dementia was likely and the person was still driving

recently a lady suffering with dementia has been charged with not having insurance for her car - which has been placed in a garage but not SORN. There will be a fine etc but its something that needs to be dealt with more routinely and people with dementia are unwilling at times to face these things as they know there licence will be taken away

@MikeRafone Agreed. I think another problem (well it was in our family anyway) is that it was common in that age group (people who will be 80+ now) for women not to drive, so as well as my dad convincing himself he was fine to drive, we had my mum backing him up as it affected her lifestyle too and as she had never driver herself, she lacked the awareness of the faculties needed.
A complete nightmare tbh.