To think people over 80 should not drive

[TorridAntelope]

I don't care how bright and sparky they are, the stats show they are dangerous

The problem is it is the crazy teenagers that die in accidents with cars crowded with people that push up the premiums for that cohort considerably.

I think stopping anyone under the age of 21 driving with more than 1 passenger would be a solution worth considering and also banning people under 21 from driving higher power cars (there is probably a de facto ban anyway through the cost of insurance).

As always, the 80-20 rule applies. 80% of younger drivers will be absolutely fine, responsible, not doing anything stupid. But 20% will take unnecessary risks, drive badly, maybe drive when drunk or on drugs, show off to friends etc.

It's why insurance premiums are based on lots of other factors, not just age, such as mileage, where parked, location, car make and model, car age, number of years driving, age when passed the test, years of no claims discounts, accident/claim history, driving offence history, etc.

It's also ageist for some posters to advocate a blanket ban on drivers under 25 or under 30 as they've called for upthread!

The problem is that between ten drivers with very little driving experience there are no stats to be able to discriminate who are the two that are likely to be the reckless ones. Hence the high premium for everyone.

Maybe compulsary black boxes monitored by AI could do a job, if they aren't already.

Of course it is. Any blanket ban based on age is ageist.

I think some sort of hazard awareness test should be taken, but maybe at 60. Blanket ban, no. Many sensible older drivers give up driving when they feel they are no longer comfortable.

So why 17 and not 15 like some other countries?

They don't. That's the issue. My lovely FIL had one near miss at 80 and declared there and then he was giving up driving (and he gave us his one-year-old car 😍)
He is vanishingly unusual. My completely sensible 88-year-old dad - despite spending half his life ranting about dangerous older drivers - did not recognise when he became one himself. His three accidents in six months were the other drivers' fault, even the one paked up and empty😫
I can think of at least six over-80s who should not be driving but they are.
We are happy to put a minimum age on driving, why not a maximum?

My Dad stopped just before he was 70, found it was getting difficult with just too many cars on the road. I am in my 50s and drive to work and back, occasionally local shops, I am not keen and would happily swap to buses when I longer work.

Your dad is unusual though. My FIL is the only person i know who recognised the time had come to give up.

My dad had a stroke and then sadly but for ego purposes looked at the car on the drive for the next two years. The one time he shuffled it, he pranged it on a stone wall.
Never formally gave up but thankfully stopped.
At one point we heard a lot about 'in emergencies' I thought that was the probably the worst time to get back behind the wheel.

FIL is nearly 90 and about to do a 200 mile trip to us in February with all the foul weather we've been having. I feel deeply uncomfortable about this but since this isn't illegal and every one has apparently happy it doesn't inconvenience blood relatives, I am going to channel 'let them'

I've just finished watching an episode of Cause of Death, set around the coroner's office in Lancashire.

The episode was a special about 4 people who were killed in road accidents. In the end all of the drivers had below legal limit eyesight. All had been told to stop driving. All should have voluntarily informed the DVLA, but didn't. They weren't all over 80.

I really think there should be a system whereby opticians and optometrists inform the DVLA of these people falling below the eye sight limit.

I do also think some conditions should be the same with GP's and/or specialists - my DD (who at the time had a provisional but hadn't started lessons) was very surprised that it was solely on her 17yo shoulders to inform the DVLA when she was diagnosed with narcolepsy and no one would ever actually check she had.

I sort of agree but the medics, including opticians, say it might prevent people going to see them.

I was curios what the statistics were for fatalities in car crashes and is it drivers over 80 causing them

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-older-and-younger-driver-factsheets-2024/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-older-driver-factsheet-2024

the chart is certainly showing men over 80 and men over 86 as a real risk to life

KSI - stands for Killed or Severe Injury.

No but there should be frequent tests to make sure older drivers are safe.

I'd call Killed or Severe Injury, a real risk to life

Yet some posters still claim that older drivers are safer than younger ones! As I said upthread, my son reviews and analyses the accident data and has thousands of spreadsheets at his disposal, yet some people still think it's the average 23 year old male who's killing everyone, and fail to accept the facts/statistics that show it's the over 80's!! The statistics also show that the young male driver is more likely to kill himself and/or his passengers, whereas the 80+ driver is more likely to kill an innocent third party. The statistics for non serious injury, non injury accidents are very similar - it's the over 80s who have, on average, more accidents (minor ones) than young males, based on distance/time driving.

I further wondered if, we a growing population if there were millions more over 80s with a driving license than the 18-24 group - as the drop in this age group learning to drive has been noted in recent years due to the cost. This would then show in the at a as more over 80s causing crashes as there are more over 80s driving.

So I went in search of the answer - but it appears that its the opposite, and of course some older people will hold a licence but no longer drive, same as 18-24 may hold a licence but not own a car

As of early 2023, there are approximately
1.65 million holders of full driving licences in Great Britain aged 80 or over

Based on data available for 2024, approximately
3.05 million people aged 16 to 25 hold a full driving licence in the UK.

Talking to my mum today, who told me a friend who she regularly gets lifts from has just bought a brand-new Audi. He's 86!!

I really think there should be a system whereby opticians and optometrists inform the DVLA of these people falling below the eye sight limit

I agree, I just don't understand why this is left to the driver.

My dad did too - he stopped when he was 90. He didn't want to pay for his car to be MOTd again, and that was the catalyst for stopping. He was one of those annoying elderly drivers who never indicated at roundabouts by the time he stopped so it was for the best. I am not sure his eyesight was that great actually and maybe the MOT thing was an excuse and he got told to stop.

Well yes, but if your dad was 90, didn't indicate at roundabouts and had poor eyesight he should have given up years earlier.
Maybe I should have said it's vanishingly unusual for drivers to recognise and give up before they are a danger to themselves and others.

It's not just eyesight though, although your plan would be a start.
My dad had a really weak shoulder so could not really turn the wheel properly and could hardly walk or move his legs properly so his foot once got 'stuck' on the accelerator (that was another near miss where it was the fault of the driver innocently coming the other way 😲)

Because for other (health) reasons they don’t want people to stop going to them. Glaucoma as one example. It’s more complex than it seems.