To not get the visceral levels of hatred people have for Keir Starmer

[LastChristmasigaveyousomesocks]

I’m not suggesting he’s the greatest prime minister ever. I’m not even suggesting he’s good at all. But some people really, really passionately hate him.

He is a bit insipid and doesn’t have much charisma but overall he seems like a decent enough bloke who perhaps lacks the political skill and acumen he needs. He’s out of his depth basically.

But that’s not a reason to actually despise someone is it?

When did we get to a point where we can’t just disagree without painting the other person as the devil incarnate?

He’s moderately intelligent. The rest is wrong.

He doesn’t stand for anything, he flip flops and that dubious arson attack by a rent boy also raises questions. I’m not a fan.

Yes but Reform did well. People voted for them. As you said. But you thought they only voted for them because of immigration. And Im suggesting that may not be the case.

You're the one who keeps bringing up NF as an apparent argument against any criticism being made of Starmer. Its odd. Is Starmer an appendage of NF?

Blair was liked when he was prime minister, he was very charismatic - I'd be surprised if anyone could say the same about KS considering his very low approval ratings and I agree with OonaStubbs the working class white vote is moving to Reform.

Just before the last election I had my local Labour candidate and now MP knock on my door, she was stunned that I wasn't going to vote for Labour (I actually voted LD as our local candidate works very hard as a local counsellor to help the local community) her whole premise was 'Labour weren't the Tories', she assumed that I would automatically be joyful to vote for her as she wasn't a Tory, that was it! Nothing about improving the economy either locally or nationally, nothing about the NHS, SEND, the elderly, etc etc. I still don't understand how she got in.

I don’t know him to hate him but I do despise his government with every fibre of my being.

I think that he cannot reasonably keep both sides of the party happy. There are MPs who are realistic and think that welfare and pensions have to be trimmed because the whole bill is out of control and unaffordable but there are others who shout and stamp whenever this issue is raised. He can’t reconcile those 2 competing factions.

Angela Canning. I don't hate her but the thought of the running the country makes my blood run cold.

Do you mean Angela Rayner @Picoloangel
If so I'd agree, I have no clue how she ended up at Downing Street.

Genuine question - could you specify which laws or politics we need to understand better in order to revise an opinion that he is a terrible PM with regard to:

• the Chagos islands deal that even the Chagossians don’t want and will cost us £34 bn

• a complete lack of control of our borders leading to costs of £billions and known terrorists, murderers and other criminals to hide among genuine asylum seekers and being able to enter our country and abscond from insecure accommodation to commit more crimes

• the Assisted Suicide bill currently being rammed through parliament with flagrant abuse of parliamentary process and threats because of his personal promise to Esther Rantzen who has actually found some better drugs and doesn’t want to die

•the cancellation of democratic process for millions of people in local council elections on spurious grounds of ‘value for money’

•his obligations to certain businessmen in exchange for fancy new clothes for him and his wife and use of expensive flats

• his government creating horrendous levels of threat, uncertainty and stress through their actions against farming and hospitality.

• his ridiculous posts on Facebook repeatedly pretending that he’s reducing the cost of living by freezing train fares and giving kids unnecessary free school meals.

• 13 u turns in his short term as PM creating more uncertainty and harming the economy.

• some of our police forces answering first to Muslim community leaders in ‘how they would like to be policed’ (ie not very much).

• his lack of any reaction to the rather novel prospect of having a convicted terrorist and former gang member as an MP. It is currently within the rules as I presume no terrorist has ever run for election before but it is concerning that he is not now looking at changing that.

I really would like to have confidence in our PM and government and not feel like he is trying to shut down our free speech, not to mention his woeful response on women’s rights. Can you help? What do I need to understand better?

You're side stepping very well... unless you seriously dont get it,?
I am pointing out the hypocrisy of dispising someone and saying they are terrible for alleged actions from their past and not recognising your double standards regarding farage who I am sure you admire given your trotted out narrative
I am sure you'll ignore again...

It’s called brainwashing from the right wing media and reform propaganda. People don’t ask questions, they just lap it up blindly.

You can"t seem to judge Keir Starmer as an individual without bringing in other random people. Farage is someone you have brought up as a comparison for some reason. Someone who isn't PM, but who you seem preoccupied by.

Its like saying "was Hitler a bad man"? "Well we can't judge him as an individual. We have to compare him to Stalin".

But since you insist.

"Dispising"(sic) someone for persecuting innocent soldiers on a pro bono basis (so you really want to do it!). Which means your leadership of the British armed forces may be suspect.

V

Your partner buying a house.

No comparison.

You must know a lot of people personally who "lap it up blindly" to make that assumption.

Is it instead because those people disagree with you perhaps?

Newspapers maybe had this kind of power 20+ years ago, but today? No.

How many people under 60 actually read them? Id be surprised if it was more than a tiny %.

It’s this scathing view of the “public” by the liberal elite (of which much of Labour is a part) that is a large part of the issue.

I think the reason is that their first year or so was disastrous… I don’t think people expected miracles, but they didn’t expect things to be even worse, and for their n concerns to be treated with contempt. The main issues were:

1. Rachel Reeves and her appalling decisions on winter fuel payments removed even from those just on a £12k state pension, and NI increases for employers hitting businesses hard, to name but a few.

2. The lack of any obvious plan… Other new Governments hit the ground running… This one didn’t seem to have a clue over what to do now they were in power. This, coupled with a robotic reliance on slogans and an arrogant assertion that they were the “grown-ups in charge” so things were obviously going be better simply because they were Labour.

3. Having to be forced through gritted teeth to address the immigration issue, with things like “one-in, one-out” being their flagship policy.

4).Their refusal to have an inquiry into grooming gangs making it appear they prioritised political correctness over their rape of 100s of white girls.

I do think however that the Government appears to have woken up over the past six months or so… more focussed and in tune. If they had started like this they wouldn’t be languishing so far behind in the polls.

You do know most newspapers have online editions? They most certainly do have the power to influence opinion, it’s the height of naivety to think they don’t.

I'm not letting you get away with that Brer Fox.... i said this....He is rated above Badenoch and pretty much evens with Farage on who would make the UKs best PM

...and then backed it up with the facts.... YOU changed the goal posts.... nice try but no cigar!

You make some good points there, exp on WFA and Irregular Immigration.

On NI increases, a substantial tax rise was needed, probably still need more, too many demands on the public purse after years of mis management, the latest is Student Loans Interest, a scam, that would never be allowed if the Students Loans Company was FCA regulated... who didn't do that???

So what tax rise? income tax would need to go up by 5% to raise similar amounts... wrecking consumer spending and dragging more into benefits.

UK Company profits are at record highs.....

Rape Gangs inquiry? well we just had a national inquiry report after 8 years in 2022, not a single recommendation carried out by Sunak, not one....

Labour on the other hand have implemented their findings....

In the post you're quoting, a PP was talking about 'the most unpopular prime minister ever'. 'Not about 'who is currently rated as the most unpopular potential prime minister'. Starmer was being compared to previous PMs, people who have actually been PM, not to his current rivals.

I genuinely can't understand why you're accusing someone else of 'moving the goalposts' when that's exactly what you're doing yourself.

You chipped in to existing goal post, Little Miss Tricky. Have a reread of the posts.

My initial.comment was responding to a PP who said (and I repeat)

"I saw a TV political presenter on the daily politics show referring to him as the most unpopular prime minister ever. I really did think’ where’s your evidence for that’.

(I have helpfully highlighted the relevant words for you.)

I then said the evidence for that was from the polls. Which state that Keir Starmer is the most unpopular Prime Minister of all time.

And then you chipped in, banging on about Farage, Badenoch and the current personal poll ratings of each compared to Keir Starmer. All completely irrelevant as only KS is a Prime Minister (again, helpful old me has highlighted the relevant words for you)

Apologies for perhaps coming across as slightly patronising as if explaining to a small child. But needs must.

Nope that poster was disagreeing and suggesting many more worse PMs... with the comment he/she got their Facts from polling...

Polling all depends on the question, so whilst yes, Starmer is highly unpopular, a slightly different question sees him rated as popular as anyone.....

Funnily enough, Starmer can be both.... As can be Reform, ahead in polling but with a slightly less popular leader..... the opposite is true of the Cons.

No apology required, you re wrong.

As i said, both statements can be true.... as for the tone, thats par for you.

As KS has been caught taking bizarre monetary favours from a political (expensive clothes for his wife and himself, free use of expensive flat etc), lying that he thinks 1% of women have a penis to appease the trans lobby, pretending he has given up on the terrible digital id thing (but will just introduce it by the back door) supporting the assisted Suicide bill which is being rammed through parliament abusing democratic process to appease Esther Rantzen and has now been discovered to be instrumental in hounding British servicemen to the brink of suicide which will also seriously hamper our ability to fight future wars.

They have both acted against our interests as a country.
I’d say the jury is out on who is more trustworthy.

The Poll of Who is the The Most Unpopular Prime Minister of All Time

The only comparison can be to another PM. Thatcher, Sunak, Blair etc (just for clarification).

Badenoch and Farage arent PMs and never have been.

One cannot argue against blind stubbornness (and an unwillingness to reread a series of posts). I bow out.