To start thinking about splitting over this

[Playdoughy]

My husband has become incredibly rude towards other people. This was a gradual change over the past few years.
While I was trying to understand his reactions in the beginning, as he would be right about the things that annoyed him - this has now escalated into him expecting that everyone shares the same manners and values and what not, or else...

To put things into perspective, I couldn't wait for us to move home because he managed to get into arguments with pretty much all the neighbours in our building and we ended up not speaking to people that I met on daily basis.
Yes - A was occasionally slamming the doors, but was it worth reporting him to his landlord, shouting at him and having 3 separate arguments over this. And so on... But at least those relationships deteriorated over a number of years.
At the new place it took him 3 weeks for the entire building to stop talking to us (yes me too, because people assume you are the one and the same). He lost it over abandoned post in the common area and a disagreement around a fence (that is not even remotely relevant for our garden).
I am an introvert and it's not like I depend on having people around for a smalltalk but tomorrow he will be like this with parents in our DC's class or teachers... He already has parents he 'hates' in the nursery and wants me to refuse playdates that DS gets invited to 'because B's dad is just full of it'.
We literally have noone left to socialise with. All the friend groups I had mingled with in past - he drove away by showing clear lack of interest for anything they talked about, refusing any couples activities together, refusing to visit them...

I just don't think I am comfortable with this being the new normal both for me and the kids in future. He is dispising anyone who wants to communicate with us or spend time with us.
At the same time he reaches out to somewhat incompatible people (e.g. a couple in their sixties both early retirement spending time between ski and geach holidays and thinking about extending an already impressive house - at the same time our little family crammed in a flat and buried in 9-5 jobs and a mortgage). Than he gets disappointed they don't reciprocate back with an invite from their side...
I grew up with my parents surrounded by extended family, friends all in similar circumstances- plenty of kids around too. He had similar upbringing but he just changed after covid and lost any interest in maintaining contacts...
I tried talking about this but he just says he doesn't care and that people are idiots or just annoy him...

With respect, I think this is one of the most ignorant posts I have ever read……

Tell him you’re not coping with his behavior and it’s isolating you. Give your DH a choice (seeing as he’s been unable to resolve things so far). Either he takes antidepressants or you divorce

Common for people with dementia to behave like this but it’s highly unlikely unless he’s a fair bit older than you!

This will impact your child as well. My f was similar and he was rude to all my friends parents, alienating as many as he could

He's isolating you, denying you and your dcs a support network and normal social life.
You've talked about it but he's refused to stop. He doesn't give a toot about your wellbeing. I'd get out now before it makes your child very unhappy.

Could he be autistic? I only ask because my dad is autistic and he also seems to enjoy always referencing negative things. It’s almost like being negative gives him pleasure if that makes sense. He also enjoys a good deal of schadenfreude and relishes telling us about someone he saw getting their comeuppance. It’s his happy place! I have another relative whom I suspect is autistic and she also falls out with people ALL THE TIME! Neighbours, friends, family, people at work, people in the street. She actually likes people and really wants human connection but her rigid thoughts about how things should be done, that other people are just wrong all the time, and her volatile temper means regular fall outs. Shouting at people in the street, at work. She can’t see that she is the common denominator. Every time they are the problem. I think she has no ability to choose her battles (yes people are annoying and wrong sometimes but it’s easier, kinder, just more peaceful to let things go most of the time). To her, being right is more important than being kind. It’s really sad because people avoid her and her partner because of it. But again, she has no idea about that.

Your DH sounds like he does realise it’s him that’s the one creating these fall outs, but he also doesn’t care. Again, being right is more important. This is certainly an autistic trait in the family members I have. I’ll ask “why on earth did you say that to that person??!” And I’ll get “because I was right!” as the reply. It’s like there are the rules we must all follow and they set the rules. There can be no deviation. People must be called out and told they are wrong at all times.

So yeah, maybe I’m off the mark, but your description did ring true for a couple of people in my family just like this.

I’m not in any way qualified to say but I wondered, too, about some sort of brain change. Particularly if it’s such a change in character from previously.

Heart, stroke, dementia, Parkinson’s to name a few.

My dad was like this for years before being diagnosed with frontotemporal dementia. It doesn’t affect memory until the very late stages but it shows in behaviour. My dad became very anti social and angry.

We have all met couples like this ("he's so rude but his wife is lovely") and to be honest it doesn't make me want to be friends with the wife. The world is full of lovely people, and the impression to an outsider is that being friends with her will bring rudeness and potentially aggression. He's behaving in a way to deliberately ward people off, and for me, it would work. And if I met you together it would work for both of you.

Regarding the comparison with physical health - if he has mental illness rather than just being curmugenly, then it behoves him to seek treatment. If my leg was wounded and I decided the district nurse was an annoying cowbag and it got infected because I wouldn't let her change the dressings, that would be on me. He's been to the initial appointment but not actually engaged in the treatment he needs to get better.
In your shoes I'd be crystal clear about how badly that is impacting on the rest of you and appeal to his pride to do better

Do you have a friend or family member whose honest opinion you trust, that you can ask what they think?

But truly, it sounds like a very difficult situation for you.

You can’t change him - none of us can change another person.

If he is not interested in seeking help (a therapist, doctor, a healthy lifestyle / fitness program, finding new hobbies…) then you don’t have much choice; you stay with a miserable angry person, or leave and find peace and light…

I don’t think I could continue to share my life with someone who was so miserable, and who alienated me from other people too.

My dad was like this - his behaviour got really difficult for a while with bad mood swings and then was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Once he got his blood sugar under control he was a lot better, and could tell when he was having a hypo because he got worse. Also, COVID can cause brain inflammation in some people and inflammation drives a whole host of issues including depression and mood disorders.

Actually you did not miss the mark at all. I thought about him potentially being on a spectrum more than once.
Yes - it is very much the same behaviour you are describing.
Also the inability to connect with people he would like to connect to (like that quiet couple I mentioned) - having one meet up and being there I know exactly what went wrong and why are they not reciprocating with an invite, but DH does not see that. He was secretive about most basic questions frankly coming across as odd, I tried to kindly explain to him later that this is not how people do smalltalk asking why was he so closed up after inviting them over...They basically felt that anything they asked was innapropriate and rude - and he was like - there will be next time I can talk about it then (and I am thinking there - oh there will be no next time).

He is also amazing at work, his focus and attention to detail - almost robotic.
So yeah...I actually thought he may be autistic, but I just don't understand how come this was not apparent to me for years - maybe I didn't mind our alone time in the beginning, not mingling with other couples/friends...I am thinking back and I just don't know...

I think it was a lot aobut the isolation. not related to Covid but I went into psychosis when I was writing up my phd and stuck in the house alone for a year. id only really see my husabnd and he came in very late from work

I think it really exacerbated some people’s natural tendencies, or gave them permission to indulge them fully, if you see what I mean? The lockdowns curtailed lots of types of activity and in my experience, quite a few people never resumed them.

So the grumpy bloke who wasn’t really a fan of socialising still doesn’t socialise but also doesn’t let his wife and DCs have friends over any more.

The woman who was always a bit on edge about having people over due to worrying about being judged for the state of her house, now doesn’t have people round at all.

In some cases I think it’s had a terrible effect on mental health - the isolation may have triggered or exacerbated previous mental health problems. Or trauma from Covid-linked situations.

You've talked a lot about him OP, but how is it affecting you? ( and your kids ). My dad was a bit like this tbh and it's definitely affected me, being around such constant negativity and anger.

I would not be happy about this being the new normal either

I’d particularly object to him saying that your dc can’t have a playdate because he objects to their parents

he could be unwell but either way it’s unacceptable for you. He really needs to understand how much of an effect it has on you. If he can’t seek help or change his ways sadly it’s time to think of leaving

Unfortunately, OP, by staying with him, you will inevitably be tarred with the same brush by neighbours and acquaintances. You are half of a couple and it is assumed you share the same world view. We had a terribly angry, hostile and aggressive neighbour (who, it turned out, had serious MH problems and was eventually sectioned and sent to stay in a psychiatric hospital) with a quiet, unassuming wife. She would literally stand right beside him when he was hurling vile abuse at us, and although I could see that she was downtrodden and probably unhappy, and on that level I felt a bit sorry for her, I have to admit that the main emotion I felt towards her was utter contempt for allying herself with such a horrible man. She did leave him in the end and after he died she came back and we became social neighbours and I would see her for a coffee occasionally. But I would never have really trusted her nor felt able to become friends rather than superficially friendly. Think of yourself and your children and how you will always struggle to fit in socially if you stay with your DH.

If he has tried therapy and finds the therapist irritating, you’re probably not gonna have much luck going down that road. Could he be dissatisfied with life in general? Maybe he he’s looking for a bigger purpose? My dad was very much like your husband and that he isn’t obviously artistic but has some tendencies and I remember him being grumpy and I was a kid and they used to push past people at the School gates to get me there on time. anyway, he had a spiritual awakening and started going to Church and since then he’s been a lot better and I think that’s because loving your enemies and living at peace with other others is prescribed and it’s not something you do because you want to it’s because that’s what the higher power has told you to do and for these people that can be sometimes the only thing that gets them to do it because someone bigger than them is said that’s what they should be like and how they should behave if Joe blogs are the Prime Minister tells you to be kind. I think they’ll just laugh in the Facebook if it comes from the creator then they actually have some respect for that. A lot of churches are doing Alpha courses at the minute where you can ask the big questions you don’t have to be a believer it’s more to ask questions and explore your faith so maybe you could find an interest in one of those and get him to go along with you and then you could vent all this frustrations to someone and ask a big questions

There's a thread in relationships Op called Married to someone with Aspergers/ ASD/ADHD, it's been running for 17 threads now, I think it might give you a better idea if your DH is ND and if there's a lot of familiar behaviours there.
Either way, you aren't obliged to stay with someone whose shutting their life down and taking you and your DC with them

Just a heads up, OP, that my ex husband became like this after he had a stroke that went unnoticed. But he was also a more angry person generally, a lot of road rage and becoming furious when machines wouldn't work etc. It was only much later (by which time I'd left) we found out about the stroke and subsequent brain damage.

My DH started getting a bit like this after COVID. I sat him down and explained the word “negging” to him, and told him how his negativity was having, well, a negative effect on me, the DC and everyone else in our lives.

I asked him to reign it in, said I understood it had become a habit, and told him that I would pull him up on it - every time he did it from then on, and that there would be more, very serious negative consequences for him if it didn’t stop quite quickly, as we needed to all work together to make the family happier.

It worked - he still gets low and slips, but I pull him up on it. Every time. It is getting better…

You're being hard on yourself. If someone had a broken leg and refused to seek treatment and it impacted on your life and it bothered you, would you feel guilty then? Because that's what this is - he is not addressing the issue. It sounds incredibly hard and draining.

How does he view you? Are you an annoying idiot to him as well?

I have a similar situation- we moved to a detached home with not a neighbour in sight and he still finds many problems with everything. If I had the money I’d leave - I’m working on it.

My DH was like this following COVID. To be fair to him, he has a shit time, bed-ridden for weeks at a time over 18months, hospitalised twice but with no diagnosis. Then he turned 50, we got a sad diagnosis for one of our children and he has a different health scare. He was nasty, argumentative, unpleasant, critical. My mother actually said she was scared if him at one point and that was what triggered a serious conversation about how miserable he was making everyone.

To his credit he has improved a lot. He was never the happy go lucky sort but he has returned to normal more or less. I'm convinced it was depression. At one point he was convinced he was dying (was on a cancer diagnosis path). He refused to get help though so if it has continued I'm not sure I could have stayed with someone who refused to try to help themselves and just walllowed in misery

I also suspect DH is asd.

While you wouldn't tell an amputee to 'just walk' they would be expected to do physio and rehabilitation.

Your husband is doing nothing to help himself so I think your guilt is misplaced.

Have you spelled it out to him in the terms you use here? The birds and dessert island analogy is a good one.

My other thought is does he spend a lot of time on the internet? Has he got used to echo chambers where everyone expresses the same thoughts (or is rounded upon) and he's applying this mentality to normal life.

I think you have to be clear this has to change. Just invite people round. Let him grump. Don't allow your world to shrink.

Also some people, like myself, had to work from home while also getting my child to do school work at home. Not sure how our relationships survived it to be honest. And those who did still have to go out to work had the worry of picking up infections and bringing them home. I can understand those who were furloughed had a different experience (although then there was a financial pressure) but a lot of people were still working one way or another.