Reform person says I'm not necessarily British although born in UK. How can I tell?

[PaperBlueCornflower]

How can I tell if I and my children are British according to their definition?

If I might turn out not to be, and DS might turn out not to be could I be thrown out? Where to?

AIBU to be puzzled and a bit worried?

After all a lot of people seem to think Reform will be the next government.

In fact, I think this ‘you’re not British’ club worryingly racist. It screams of some kind of weird ethnicity argument.

British Nationality depends on a few factors, but you can find out on Gov.uk if you / your children are British. As there’s been amendments over time, it depends when you were born, if your parents were married before a certain point, if they were British. It’s on GOV.UK

Of course you are wrong. If you’re going to strongly point something out, get your facts right. Nationality is not purely determined on place of birth.

You are most likely a dual citizen.

There is a nice definition of British in the Oxford dictionary- ‘the people of Great Britain’. That is very much my understanding, it is not always a reference to having acquired citizenship but instead includes where you are from. This is a vocabulary point.

It’s not just Reform who have thrown uncertainty over citizenship. This started under the Labour government when they changed the law to allow British citizens to be stripped of their status if they were linked to terrorism. Because no one can be left stateless, by default this only applies to anyone with foreign ancestry. By default it will mean nearly any BAME suspect could be kicked out but if you’re a white terrorist with British grandparents you’ll be OK.

Ethnicity is different than nationality.

@Zanatdy err no, my facts are straight on this one!

I think the difference is whether someone limits the meaning of ‘British’ to whether citizenship was acquired or granted, or whether it is also about where you are from. My view is the latter, wider meaning. This is a vocabulary question though. I also think it reflects the reality of the world that we live in.

I wouldn’t worry too much, I’d be surprised if they even win the by-election if this is their starting point.

Nearly 30% of the Gorton & Denton population were born outside of the UK and either hold no passport or a non-UK passport, and only 57% are white.

Telling nearly half of your potentially voters they aren’t truly British isn’t a great tactic for gaining their support…

You are right.

A lot of people with Settled Status ILR have multiple nationalities and hold two or more passports. I know someone who has Libyan, Italian & now British passports.

It does matter to me as I find the concept of being told you aren’t British, etc, because of where one’s parents were born as really offensive and racist.

Saying someone is not a citizen would not offend me at all if they don’t have citizenship. It’s just there is something particularly nasty about denying a British born person inclusion as a British person. It has a whiff of xenophobia about it.

Exactly. Like the former Home Secretary & minister for immigration who have decided their true home.

This sounds like the sort of response someone who is trying to shit stir reform voters so that they can be oh so outraged and report back to mumsnet.

Of course there are some stupid reform voters just like there are for every party. Brain of Britain Lammy made it Deputy Prime Minister.

I remember being told as a teen by a particularly obnoxious girl that I should be returned to Ireland with my family as my dad is Irish.

i am not sure how it worked in the 70’s. I know my dad applied for citizenship (after serving in the British army!) and was refused. I don’t know anything other than that as he died when I was very young.

i am uk born and have a British passport. Again I don’t know how that works, I sent in my birth certificate and got a passport.

to be honest, if reform did get in I would very seriously consider leaving the country. The very thing that allows me to leave- my Irish citizenship- is the reason they’d want me out.

Like Kemi Badenoch’s mother?

If Sudan has birthright citizenship then he would be classed as a Sudanese citizen as well as British.

My DD was born in the US to one UK citizen (me) and one US citizen (DH)

She is therefore a duel citizen with both passports.

Because she is a citizen by descent she cannot pass her British citizenship to her own children unless she gives birth in the UK.

However she meets the conditions to pass her US citizenship on to children born anywhere in the world.

Unless the father of her children was a British citizen born in the UK and then their children can be both US and UK no matter where they are born. And in that scenario if they give birth to a baby in a country with birthright citizenship who are also okay with multiple citizenships the children could have three citizenships.

But did your Kenyan friends grow up there? Did they have Kenyan citizenship? Would you describe a person born in Britain to two ethnically and culturally Chinese parents, who left when they were four and grew up entirely ethnically and culturally Chinese, as British? When they have no British citizenship, or any link to Britain, other than they happened to have popped out here due to their parents' temporary posting?

Of course a person of any national or ethnic background who is born in Britain can be British, legally and culturally. As can a person who was not born anywhere near Britain, surely? Or do you think that it's all about place of birth, that someone born in say Kenya, or China, or Sudan cannot ever be considered British? I would argue the place they are raised and/or belong culturally matter far more than where they emerged.

The worry is if people like op and her family will be allowed to live in the UK under reform. So it’s about the legal definition. If you were born in the UK, you wouldn’t be considered a British citizen unless at least one of your parent is a British citizen or have a settled status.

In the US they still allow citizenship by birth, in the UK they changed the law in early 80s.

Why would you get kicked out if you are a British citizen?

That's English not British

Joanna Lumley was born in British Indian in 1946, before independence. So she is British, born in what was then a British colony.

Yes, as I said, it varies.

Is China not a nation?

If she has or is entitled to an Indian passport, yeah.

Would everyone else who was born there before 1946 also be British then?

They will probably make their own laws if they get in based on their own definitions. If they decide you are not sufficiently British I suppose you will be deported to a "safe country".