'Taxes are the price we pay for a civilised society'

[Bargepole45]

Having just paid an enormous tax bill, I frankly am fed up with hearing this. There are lots of civilised countries that have a far lower tax burden than the UK. It's just a form of blackmail designed to make contributors believe that there is no other way other than to pay sky high taxes to subsidise people's crap life choices.

Have too many kids and can't afford them? No problem, the state steps in. Have a terrible lifestyle and don't look after your health at all? No problem, the NHS will treat you. Spent all your money with wild abandon and have nothing left to pay for your care when you get old? Don't fret, the state will fund the same care home as someone that has saved all their life.

Don't people understand that these 'safety nets' just facilitate reckless behaviour? We can have a civilised society where people aren't cushioned from all of their bad decision making. I say this as someone from a background where I didn't have much money and I am so fed up with people pretending that poor people don't know that an apple is healthier than a chocolate bar or that it's a good idea to actually attend school. It's insulting and disempowering to keep making excuses for people that simply aren't incentivised to make different, better choices.

Who exactly are you angry about? All the investment bankers etc I know pay via PAYE, just like you and me. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding and paranoia about ‘the wealthy’. Studies into wealth taxes show they do more harm than good in the medium to long term.

It said parents, which I assumed meant OP and her DH/partner; but I suppose her kids could have different dads who have both/all subsequently chosen to live on benefits.

Salaries are higher in Denmark than here but you don't want big business employer's to pay more, you want to continue to subsidise them, is that right?

They are, and it will be this Country's loss, in the end.

Are you suggesting that there’s a sizeable amount of people inventing mental health conditions so they can claim PIP, or there are doctors misdiagnosing them?

It may be the case that there’s no DWP assessment, however the evidence we have to submit for my son’s disability benefit is huge. We have to evidence why he would be impaired, just saying he is would get us zero.

This idea that disability benefit is easy to claim is an absolute myth.

And yet at Davos 400 millionaires/billionaires sign an open letter demanding to be taxed more.

https://fortune.com/2026/01/21/nearly-400-millionaires-billionaires-24-countries-demanding-davos-leaders-tax-them-more-super-rich/

Horrible situation for them, The difference is that then they were prepared to work to feed their family. Now they expect everything on a plate effort as a given right. This is why tax payers have had enough.

I’m not sure it would be.

Financially perhaps, but on a societal level I’m not sure I want to live amongst selfish individuals who don’t want to contribute to others not starving to death.

I admit I'm not an expert on this. And that is food for thought.
But I guess where I am coming from is, I see very little distinction between 'low' and 'high' earners Vs the gulf between 'high' earners and the mega rich. That's what I was trying to articulate - there is a huge lump of us just trying to survive, some on historically good wages, but that 'lump', whilst there may be nuances in the taxation scales, are paying proportionately far more than the mega rich

Once again, GDP per capita is higher in Denmark. It would therefore naturally follow that wages would be higher. This is a relationship seen in most countries where GDP isn't skewed by very few very high earner. They also have higher levels of productivity and skills than the UK.

I think there is an argument for higher wages in some cases but higher wages don't come without risk. Look at Sweden for example and their unemployment levels, especially among the young.

Oh come on!

Firstly, it's easy to be very keen on an expansive welfare state when you are a beneficiary of it. This too is a selfish position. Note though that many of these beneficiaries are the most opposed to immigration irrespective of the level of need. Selfishness certainly isn't the preserve of the better off.

Secondly, you need someone to fund all of this. There simply aren't enough left leaning, well paid people to do it alone.

Just to clarify, those with wealth already into the millions are fine. As they can invest that and grow that independently of income.
Those who have no wealth but high income potential, are leaving en masse. If they are young and can get a visa elsewhere. It is because other countries are deliberately attracting them. And why would they not? These are the most productive and highest tax payers worldwide. And of course they are going to leave if they can.

This is a bit self defeating. We need people to pay tax not see them off.

There is no defending the 60% tax rate. It is a completely bonkers anomaly.

Ah so you think the mega rich should pay more than 45% income tax on earnings? Or you think dividend tax should be increased? Or capital gains rates?

You may have a point but the government would have taken a decision as to whether the tax take would have increased had they increased the rates. Mega rich live very different lives to you and I. Like someone said of the footballer, it’s no big deal to them to spend a bit less time in the UK and pay taxes elsewhere.

We have a Labour government. They aren’t using tax laws to shelter the mega rich from taxes. If they aren’t increasing certain taxes on the mega rich it’s because research has shown that doing so will reduce the over all tax take and / or damage the wider economy.

I think, as you mention, coming from a background of deprivation helps you to have some compassion. Or it should.

Whether you think benefit claimants are “worthy” or not, their children need feeding, and in some cases waiting for their parents to generate some personal wealth would stop that from happening. I would sooner pay higher rate tax so those kids are clothed and fed, than leave them without.

I find it staggering that you’ve met those families, probably know those children, and would leave them without. For people like me, and assumedly like you too, they are real people who you’ve met that you’re happy to leave without, not fictional nobodies.

Like I said. Selfishness that I cannot get onboard with.

It really isn't a myth.

3.6 million people claiming PIP in 2024.

I've worked in the public sector for years and it isn't difficult to get PIP so long as you know what to say and persist after being rejected.

I helped numerous people get PIP and regretted doing so, I've seen other workers do it and personally questioned their ethics in doing so.

And your point ' we have to evidence why he would be impaired, just saying so would get us zero'.

So what was your evidence? did the assessors see him? the majority don't so what was your evidence?

Was it really an observational assessment or, what you say?

You might be claiming reasonably but that doesn't mean others are not or that it's difficult to claim when it demonstrably isn't based on the stats.

Can be even higher than that - 62% if you factor in NIC. Plus loss of free childcare over £100k can be well over 100% marginal tax rate. There are also some other stupid anomalies, such as thousands of percent marginal tax rate if a higher rate taxpayer has bank interest as they lose the £1k allowance down to £500 or lose it altogether if additional rate taxpayer - yes, thousands of percent on only a small amount of income, so pretty trivial in pound note terms, but it's still a perverse cliff edge. Of course, same happens at much lower income levels when relative modest increases in income mean you lose benefits such as rental support, council tax relief, free prescriptions, free school meals, etc etc. All such cliff edges and "hard" thresholds need scrapping with a strict hard red line 50% marginal limit imposed on tax/benefits.

I know these families and have a lot of compassion in particular for the children. I actively go out of my way to help specific children.

I know families who would be regarded as poor where the children are always well fed, immaculately turned out and come to school everyday ready to learn. It's a struggle but nobody is starving or close to it.

I also know families on comparable income who send their children to school with a chocolate bar and can of coke for breakfast, let their kids skive school and have such chaotic houses that the children can't find their PE kit or school uniform. The parents vape, spend money on their own hobbies and going out and claim they don't have enough money to feed their kids.

The difference between these families isn't money

I have a colleague who lives in the most deprived part of my town. He’s unashamedly right wing because of the poverty he lives in and the people he knows, The neighbours who live off benefits and take the piss out of him for working. The friends he has who claim to be disabled who’s only disability is that they cannot be arsed to do anything. His lived experiences of poverty.

I am quite evidently not going to list all of my child’s personal information for you to establish if it was evidence enough.

However he has an assortment of diagnoses, and is under various medical teams and specialists. Reports and information from every single one of them goes into our application.

The assessors haven’t see him. But at least 9 professionals have, and their word should be good enough.

I do not believe that anyone is saying “I’ve got autism give me some money,” without hard evidence to back that up.

You sound ill-informed and knee-jerk prejudiced to the point where tbh I don't see why anyone here should take your thread seriously, OP.

So your issue isn’t benefits, it’s what they’re spent on?

Or is this just some outright judgement of other people’s lives?

What you’re describing is poor parenting, which has absolutely nothing to do with entitlement to claim benefits.

We are moving abroad this summer- another NHS nurse and higher rate tax payer gone. Everyone can wave us off sarcastically and tell us not to let the door hit us on the way out but 3 of our friends moved abroad last year with their families, 4 this year. Bright educated high earning people fed up with this country. More will move. There’s no incentive for bright people to move from abroad (teachers, doctors etc) as pay is rubbish, visa hoops are crazy and quality of life is poor.
This will keep happening until someone wakes up and improve things.

Thats true for Norway. Not Denmark, Sweden, Finland so much.

Don’t underestimate the huge amount of pretty extreme socialist steps they’ve taken. Most inherited wealth is taxed away. Landlords have few to no rights and huge rent control meaning cost of living is lower as housing is cheaper, all healthcare fully paid for, all education including degrees masters etc paid for.

I don’t think the uk would be supportive of these steps but having lived and worked in these places - they feel pretty nice. The nicest I’ve seen. Very little poverty. No super rich (as most super rich wealth is taxed away) but more social cohesion.