So upset about ICE killings in Minnesota

[Allotmentblackfly]

So upset about the killings. No investigation and victim blaming from the Trump administration. I see no hope for America. Trump will cancel the midterms possibly elections or will rig them. The most powerful western country - one we thought was our friend is dying
im so sad for the bereaved and do sad for the country

So if ICE grabs you, takes you to a detention centre for a few days, no one knowing where you are, family searching.

you get chucked back out on the street once your citizenship status is established, in a different state to find you way home.

that’s a “non story”? You’d be fine with that? You’d be fine if it was your son or daughter just disappearing one day? That’s a “non story”?

From what I can tell though if you’re married to a us citizen the most realistic way of getting your green card/visa is to overstay and complete the process there. Returning to a home country and doing it from outside the us is complicated, expensive, and takes a long time. Not great if you’re living apart from your new spouse. Immigration lawyers seem to advise this way. And it does take years and a lot of money- the speed often depends on how much money you can pay to smooth the way.
This is true, but we're talking about a 15 year overstay which - unfortunately for Seamus - has included a substantial shift in government policy.

He took a risk based on policy prior to Trump's second term, and he's had the worst possible outcome, which would only have been considered a slim possibility in years gone by (including under prior Republican Presidents, first term Trump included).

Indeed.

And its funny how, in Gloriia's head - two or three instances or protestors apparently using racist slurs = the protesters are vile racists.

Two instances of seemingly unlawful murders by ICE agents, repeated breaches of court orders, various other instances of highly dubious conduct (including apparent acts of violence): essentially, "oh well, I still support them"

You are absolutely correct. We have been around the houses on this one many many times. The comparisons are being used because the situations are comparable.

The majority of people on this thread understand this and those who don't have yet to explain why they are not the same. There has been plenty of evidence showing the similarity.

History can be learnt from unless one chooses to ignore.

Who is telling you that? Maybe if you are an illegal immigrant that’s the ‘better way’ (since you could get slapped with an entry ban for overstaying your visa or illegally entering) but for normal people processing this while abroad is the better way. It’s less risky and cleaner.

They just don’t want you to deport anyone. They can leave quickly once they give up their claims.

'While in the detention center, Katie was able to FaceTime her mom'

They knew where she was. Scaremongering and hyperbole doesn't help anyone. She was released after a few days, obviously the process to investigate isn't instant.

I imagine it is stressful and unpleasant being detained. It is obviously important to have all relevant docs up to date.

@ Gloriia Are you a mother?

If I had a dc who was conducting a long distance relationship, met their dp got married quickly and then got pregnant I'd have had great concerns particularly as this all occurred in the US. I'd obviously be distressed if a dc got detained in a foreign country.

The point it she was released after only a few days and a green card was issued? Due process takes a while and as I've said it is reassuring surely that white Brits like Katie and white Irish immigrants like Seamus are being treated the same as Latinos. Or do you think if you're white the same rules don't apply?

Why would you be distressed if dc got detained in a foreign country? If they have the relevant documents it’s only a few days and then they’d be released.

so what’s the problem?

Because it is a normal to be concerned about our dc particularly when they are living in another country? Worry is normal regardless of the reasons and outcome.

This lady could facetime her dm though she they knew where she was and what was going on unlike your previous scaremongering comment 'So if ICE grabs you, takes you to a detention centre for a few days, no one knowing where you are, family searching' and people 'disappearing'. No one disappeared.

If "we've been through this", you clearly weren't listening. 🙄
What do you think a concentration camp actually IS? And why do you believe a 'detention centre' cannot be a 'concentration camp'?

These are concentration camps.

The conditions are inhumane. Purposefully. We know why.
But hey, good job in finding the one or two of the 80,000 or so who say they've been treated well 🤣

There was also the absolute conviction that Alex Pretti assaulted multiple ICEstapo thugs by spitting at them, despite the very clear video that it did not happen. He spat at a vehicle 🙄
Even when there is visual evidence right in their faces, some people simply cannot accept that they've been sold a lie. 🤷‍♀️
Sources matter

Maybe I misread it. I can't seem to find the list again so I'm wondering if it was perhaps a combined law enforcement list. There were several officers who'd been shot whilst attempting to apprehend suspects.

Either way, the ICE situation is out of control but these fucking numpties keep escalating it by following them around, harassing them, and then acting surprised when it all goes pear shaped. Yes, it's more dangerous for the protesters but that's kinda the power dynamic when an armed person with the authority to kill is being harassed by an unarmed individual. The ICE agents are doing their job, whether or not their methods are acceptable. However, the protestors are consciously choosing to put themselves in these situations.

We're in a time where the battle between left and right has come to a head. Trump being elected twice and Reform topping the polls over here evidence this. More people are sick of the woke than ever before, whilst the woke are louder than they've ever been.

Right now, the US is governed by a right wing bully who dislikes the woke and is pretty volatile/unrepentant. This has emboldened his followers and I daresay organisations like ICE probably have a higher than usual proportion of individuals who share his views. Despite the fact I dislike Trump, the left haven't really helped matters either by being so contradictory with their outrage.

In the wake of events like Rotherham and the biggest mass incident of sexual assault Europe has seen in recent decades (maybe ever), the left still seem more focused on banging on about 'gammons' and trying to villify those that protest than acknowledging the events that have fueled these protests.

For all the talk of intolerant gammons nobody on the left has the balls to comment on things like the Channel 4 survey which found the majority of UK Muslims stating that homosexuality should be illegal. If anything they actively fight against the addressing of things like FGM, forced/child marriage, honour killings etc by trying to argue it's 'all male violence', when in reality things like religious extremism and the subjugation of women in middle eastern cultures need tailored approaches. We all know it's not white accountants from Kensington that are plotting terror attacks and arranging honour killings.

If we must make comparisons with Nazi Germany it's more like Jews blowing whistles at their Nazi persecutors and wondering why they're getting mowed down.

You can't overthrow an oppressor by appealing to their good nature. It's like explaining to a bully why they shouldn't bully you. You either need to beat them by force or stay out their way. Or perhaps martyr yourself to the extent that wider society steps in. But that's a bit like goading XL bullies until enough of you have your faces ripped off for it to become an untenable situation.

I'm not really getting the impression that most liberals are happy to sacrifice their lives to accomplish this. It's more that it's just happening as a consequence of the situation, with people seemingly surprised that altercations with gunmen can lead to people being shot.

A pretty big thing to 'misread' Especially as it was your justification for the thuggery
"..it's likely that the ICE agents were already full of adrenaline as a fair few have been fatally shot in the last year and death threats have apparently risen by 8000% recently"

And, please, no need to "can't seem to find the list again" because there is no such list. No ICE agents have been killed while undertaking immigration duties since 2003 and you were just making stuff up again. This current ICEstapo is not fearing for their lives or in any real danger. DHS will tell you that they are but the facts don't support that and, let's face it, it's getting hard to actually count the number of lies they have to come up with to try and justify the brutality.
Any 'adrenaline' is more likely to be due to how much they are getting off on what they are doing.

Anyway, it's ok to admit you 'unintentionally' got it wrong 🤷‍♀️

The rant was a nice touch which I assume was to deflect

'these fucking numpties keep escalating it by following them around, harassing them, and then acting surprised when it all goes pear shaped. Yes, it's more dangerous for the protesters but that's kinda the power dynamic when an armed person with the authority to kill is being harassed by an unarmed individual'

Yes but it has all gone quiet now Homan has put Walz & Frey back in their boxes so hopefully law enforcement officers can do their jobs without being harassed.

Oh I'm sorry let me rephrase 'spitting in their direction as they were sat in a car'. The window could've been down? And kicking and damaging a car is criminal damage. He wasn't a peaceful protestor was he?

This is not true. Nothing in Minnesota has changed. It's just not being reported on as much.
ICE is still causing carnage in communities and acting unlawfully.

Wrong again. The people of Minneapolis have driven the fascist thugs out of town by bringing the world's attention to what is going on. The "surge" is over. Just a shame that it took so many children to be traumatised before it ended.

https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-metro-surge-ice-523d18d5d75c81cbf9f24c602f1884ff

Elsewhere the people of Charlotte drove ICE out by putting Republican representatives under pressure in the swing state.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Recording every move ICE makes was already proven effective in Chicago.

'The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement operation focused on the Minneapolis-St. Paul area resulted in more than 4,000 arrests, Homan said, touting it a success.“The surge is leaving Minnesota safer,” he said. “I’ll say it again, it’s less of a sanctuary state for criminals.”

From your link. 4000 arrests has indeed been a success and left the area safer.

Homan said 'he cited an “increase in unprecedented collaboration” resulting in the need for fewer federal officers in Minnesota, including help from jails that hold deportable inmates' and 'We’ve seen a big change here in the last couple of weeks,” he said, crediting cooperation from local leaders'

As I said the gov and mayor have been put in their boxes and so the whole situation has diffused which is what should have happened in the first place.

Cry harder, Gloriia.

"Unprecedented cooperation" is plain and obvious spin. The only thing they actually point to is increased cooperation from jails - who were already cooperating fully.

The administration is pulling the plug because the thuggery of ICE has been deeply unpopular - around 2/3rds of Americans thinking the agency has gone "too far" - not great when immigration control is the core pillar of Trump's platform (voters hate his economic and foreign policies, for example).

A phenomenal win for Minesotta and its leaders, and America as a whole, in the fight against fascism.

Even the Daily Mail's headline is mocking Trump's "surrender".

🤗

4,000 arrests and how many released? Most of them, I'll be bound.

The area will be left a lot safer when ICE leave. Two thirds of the murders in the city this year were committed by ICE.

As I said the gov and mayor have been put in their boxes

What absolute horseshit. Noem has been put back in her box and may face impeachment. The administration very much has egg on its face, no matter how KKKaroline will spin it.

Its highly regrettable that it took the killings of two people, all caught on camera, to prompt the swing in public opinion against ICE that caused the administration to fold (and all without getting the access to Minesotta's voting infrastructure, that was clearly one of the Trump administration's primary aims).

The protests - particularly the whistling - weren't solely aimed at causing the government the government to back down, but to alert folks who might be targeted by ICE of their presence. We can't reasonably tell how many people that has helped protect.

Of course, the best case scenario of the protests would be that they would force ICE's withdrawal and that has now happened.