So upset about ICE killings in Minnesota

[Allotmentblackfly]

So upset about the killings. No investigation and victim blaming from the Trump administration. I see no hope for America. Trump will cancel the midterms possibly elections or will rig them. The most powerful western country - one we thought was our friend is dying
im so sad for the bereaved and do sad for the country

Sigh. Am I the only person who feels this thread is like a scratched record with the needle stuck in rut. Lots of great evidence being posted around the ditch.

I'm deleting it now,since nothing new has been learned, that we didn't already know.

Dear Gloriia,

I hope this reply finds you well.

You seem to be sincerely under the impression that ICE are arresting and deporting only persons who have entered the country illegally, and that other posters on the thread object to the deportation of illegal immigrants

As many others have explained to you, time after time after time, ICE are arresting and detaining (1) US citizens, and (2) immigrants who have followed (and/or are actively following) the proper channels.

In doing so, ICE have repeatedly (and as a matter of agency policy), transgressed the law. We know this not just because of our eyes, but because whistleblowers from within ICE have made it public.

Posters on this thread are particularly concerned with the illegality, sometimes violent illegality, which which ICE are conducting themselves. Nobody in this thread has expressed any objection to lawful deportations.

Concern has also repeatedly been expressed at the administration's apparent admission that obtaining voting rolls, ahead of the midterms, is one of the primary reasons for which ICE have been deployed in this manner.

I hope that explains you (no doubt), very genuine confusion on this issue. If you need any more clarity, I would heartily recommend that you read some of the posts that people have made in this thread.

With warmest regards,

Some of you should try to stick to the topic. It kind of diminishes the seriousness of it all when you're so intent on these childish attacks. I haven't seen anyone stupid, gullible or any 'bad faith actors'. Other posters have also remained calm and polite whilst challenging all the 'nazi' &'ICEstapo' appalling false equivalence. Try it.

Hello Gloria

Thank you for post, I admire the manner in which you express the same non-point repeatedly, and ignore substantively engaging with anything.

Repition is, of course, a recognized literary technique, and I acknowledge your mastery of it.

Your expert deployment of the technique really speaks to your good faith engagement and, of course, is always a pleasure to read!

I would invite you, if you'd be so kind, to perhaps consider addressing some of the points raised in my prior writing to you (or, indeed, as have been raised by many posters in between your gloriously repetitive posts - which, again, I confirm that I truly admire).

With kindness,

I stuck to the topic and the discussion at hand. You have repeatedly made the posts here all about you.🙄

Perhaps I could (again) try direct questions, to try and break this awkward silence.

@Gloriia ,

1. Would you agree that not a single person in this thread has expressed any objection to illegal immigrants being deported in a lawful manner? If not, perhaps you'd be so kind as to highlight examples to the contrary.

1. Do you think ICE should follow the law?

1. Is it a concern, to you, that ICE policy involves ignoring the law (most notably, violating Aritcle 4 of the constitution)?

1. Is it legal to violate court orders, if you dont like them?

1. Is it a concern to you that ICE routinely violate court orders?

1. Does the government routinely violating court orders have any implications for the rule of law?

1. Do you think ICE's targetting of immigrants who have followed, and are following, legal immigration processes is problematic?

1. Do you have any particular concern with the significant increase in deaths-in-ICE-custody under Trump?

1. Do you agree that the state summarily executing citizens is a bad thing (even if you might not agree with the actions of those citizens)?

10. Do you think the administration who immediately labeled, without investigation, Rene Good or Alex Pretti as "domestic terrorits" will ensure full and fair investigations?

11. Why do you think so many people, from within ICE itself, have expressed concern with the agency's actions and policiez under the current administration?

12. In what way was the administration's demand for a withdrawal (or partial withdrawal) of ICE from Minesotta - that the state hands over its voting rolls - consistent with a purported aim of deporting illegal immigrants?

13. Would you agree that Article 10 of the constitution means that the state of Minesotta has no legal obligation to require its law enforcement personnel to support ICE's activities within the state?

Grateful for your illumantive responses, as always.

Respectfully,

DeepBlueDeer

I appreciate that is a lot of questions in one go. If you need to get up to speed on any of these issues, please feel free to go back through the thread. Many of them are repeatedly discussed (try looking for the posts that are between your ones).

Edit just to stress the upmost respect with which the above guidance is offered.

Also - why does this website hate numbered lists??

Sigh

Fox News? What a surprise 🙄
That link has been posted and addressed. ‘Rounded up?’ Nah, easy pickings. These are ones who have already been convicted and sentenced and will be deported anyway so not rounded up due to any kind of intelligence. A little misleading, in light of the issues doncha think?

Pretty sure that you. Won’t find a single post against the deportation of illegal immigrants who have committed any serious crime 🤷‍♀️
So wondering if there is a point you are trying to make?

No, of course not!🤯 I'm black and white wrt sex offenders. Get them out to fuck!

Are you ok with a serial sex offender and proud friend of other violent sex offenders and paedophiles inflicting violence on US citizens?

Good to see you're now posting within TGs.

The numbered questions are unclear but regarding one of the numbered '1' questions, no one was 'executed'. I have said repeatedly that no one should be shot but if you agitate in a volatile situation with armed officers sadly tragedies and errors will occur. Se also Babbitt Jan 6th riots.

Incase I've not made myself clear illegal immigrants and also those in a country legally whom have broken terms of their visas should be deported.

Local plods and their bosses should support officers doing this and not whip up hate and unrest. Which now seems to have sunk in so that's good, yes?

Officers who have to do this are not nazis or 'ICEstapo'. Equating it to actual atrocities is appalling and minimises the horrors of the Holocaust.

Hope that clear that up for you.

Pretti was surrounded by ICE agents, forced to kneel, shot, collapsed and then shot a further 9 times.

So OK - so quite reasonably and rationally you are not against the deportation of violent criminal illegal migrants.

Two quick questions:
How do you feel about the deportation of illegal migrants who have not been convicted of any violent crimes?

How do you feel about protesters who actively prevent the deportation of violent criminals either by blowing whistles (to alert both those illegal migrants with and without a violent criminal record) or for example the following case in the UK:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/victim-slams-passengers-prevented-convicted-rapist-yaqub-ahmed-deported-141035023.html

In response to your question on Trump, I believe that he is a deeply unpleasant bully whose arrogance and generally sexist attitudes demeans the Presidential Office.

Its shocking that the Democrats had such an appallingly bad candidate in Harris and a complete lack of any actual policies.

The numbered questions are unclear but regarding one of the numbered '1' questions, no one was 'executed'. I have said repeatedly that no one should be shot but if you agitate in a volatile situation with armed officers sadly tragedies and errors will occur. Se also Babbitt Jan 6th riots.

In both cases talked about in this thread, an agent(s) of the state decided to pull out a gun and shoot their victims multiple times, at close quarters, without due process. The agents on each occasion also withheld first aid in vital first minutes.
In both cases there appears to be no immediate threat to the victims and yet the state has immediately blamed the victims, tried to sully their names, The state has also failed to carry out appropriate investigation and in the aftermath of each case said that the perpetrators would have immunity.

It is your opinion that these victims were not executed, it is my opinion from all of the evidencec posted hare and elsewhere that these were.state sponsored executions designed to send a message to the population to fall into line and forget due process.

Genuine question- the comparison photo you have used contains a genuine historical WW2 photo alongside an AI generated photo of an ICE officer pointing a gun at Pretti in the same pose.

Why did you choose to use a fake AI generated image and why did you use it to create a false comparison?

"ChatGTP gives the following check to the photo you used:
Based on multiple independent fact-checks and reporting, the specific still image you’re asking about — the one showing a federal officer pointing a gun at Alex Pretti — is not an authentic unedited photograph"

The obsession with nazis and the Holocaust has been really disturbing to see.

If one is resorting to fake AI images then what else is being made up or embellished. This is the second time it's been posted. Why is there this fevered excitement with comparing everything to the nazis?

We should all be able to agree that any death is tragic and regrettable but chaotic scenes should not develop when there are armed officers around, intentions become unclear. Everyone is human and a risk assessment can be incorrect. Obviously.

Leave loaded weapons at home and take a placard or similar but stay out of the way.

Quote : " Leave loaded weapons at home and take a placard or similar but stay out of the way."

Empty weapons ok ?

So you appear to be against the 2nd ?

That's a wee crack in your anti left armour. A step to the left.

Good stuff .

Says someone who likes to post made up stuff 🤣
The biggest proponent of lies and embellishment is the the current regime. Time and time again, they are caught out and shown to be making stuff up.

As has been posted many times, the comparison between 1930s Germany and the US today is very apt. You are the one who cannot seem to comprehend what is being compared. THAT is really disturbing to see because it highlights just how it was allowed to happen in the first place. In both cases.

Lets run through it one more time. Some of the undeniable similarities

Lugenpresse ✅. Journalists are also already being arrested btw
Extreme Nationalism ✅ MAGA anyone? Perceived status
Annexing of countries ✅. Venezuela. Constant talk of taking over territory
Creation of a 'common enemy' via playing on peoples fears and prejudices ✅
Violence and fear to remove that 'common enemy' ✅. While people defend it or just look away

Just look at how the common cry of "but they are breaking the law" is repeated ad nauseum. Without acknowledging that most of them are not. Doing this while not being able to acknowledge the indisputable fact that ICEstapo are breaking the law. Every single day. Killing people, traumatising children, all while so many on the ground and online stick to the (proven false) narrative they've been spoonfed. "if only they weren't breaking the law"

The inhumane treatment in those camps doesn't compute because they are just brown people, or just 'not real Americans' so we'll keep parroting "but they broke the law". The firsthand accounts of the brutal treatment, often of US citizens who just happen to be born elsewhere are plentiful but "they must have broken the law". No. Most are not. Immigrants, ALL immigrants, on average are less likely to commit crimes or be incarcerated than US born citizens.
Why then, are the millions of dollars being spent on ICEstapo not being used to address crime and the justice system overall? If it's about "breaking the law" and all?

The cognitive dissonance is frightening and it is no different to what was happening in the 1930s.

Cognitive dissonance in 1930s Germany was a critical psychological mechanism that enabled the Nazi regime to gain popular support, execute discriminatory policies, and implement systemic violence, despite the inherent moral, legal, and social contradictions such actions presented to the German public. The regime, through extensive propaganda and structural coercion, created a new moral framework that normalized actions conflicting with traditional, ethical, or Christian values.

Starts with 'blaming the victim' which has been rife in these threads.

Feel free to explain WHY and HOW it is no different to what is going on today

I've rewatched the video of the execution and captured a still. I'm not a tech expert so this is just a screenshot. I think this could have been used as a comparison without the ai.

If anything i think it's more upsetting than the ai manipulated version.

Yeah i see 'ICEstapo' and just cba. Stop it. It does a real disservice to victims of the actual Holocaust. Just appalling,

So you agree that you posted an AI fake image of an ICE officer pointing a pistol at Pritti and used it alongside a genuine photo from WW2 to create a false comparison.

Why do think this is acceptable?