So upset about ICE killings in Minnesota

[Allotmentblackfly]

So upset about the killings. No investigation and victim blaming from the Trump administration. I see no hope for America. Trump will cancel the midterms possibly elections or will rig them. The most powerful western country - one we thought was our friend is dying
im so sad for the bereaved and do sad for the country

Lies.

I really think that certain posters should show some sensitivity to the people being tortured and killed right now, rather than dehumanising them as "illegals". Dehumanising people being where it started in Germany.

Anne Frank didn't die in a gas chamber. Like many others she died as a result of the overcrowding and poor sanitation in a concentration camp.

Cool. So you are a low information voter, same as @RingoJuice admitted to earlier. No shame in that. Nothing in politics is binary after all, And while us armchair commentors argue away, the actual political scientists plot wars. Because they can't agree either.

But here is the thing about geopolitics. Both of us, different backgrounds. different ideologies etc both have something in common. We both know more about it than Trump.

And once you accept that, then you are on your way to be cured of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Read Reagan. Ideologically, I don't agree with all of his policies, but feck me, at least he had a vision. And it would be a brave person to disagree with these words.

Farewell Address to the Nation | Ronald Reagan (reaganlibrary.gov)

"Ours was the first revolution in the history of mankind that truly reversed the course of government, and with three little words: </span><strong><span class="italic">We the People.'' We the People'' tell the government what to do; it doesn't tell us. We the People'' are the driver; the government is the car. And we decide where it should go, and by what route, and how fast. Almost all the world's constitutions are documents in which governments tell the people what their privileges are. Our Constitution is a document in which We the People'' tell the government what it is allowed to do. We the People'' are free. This belief has been the underlying basis for everything I've tried to do these past 8 years."

Trumpism has no ideology apart from split and separate, to the glory of dear leader Trump. Because he is thick as fuck, to put it crudely.

Look up what Reagan done in 1986 re immigration. No ICE then.

Once cured of your Trump Derangement Syndrome, please come back and have a good faith political debate.

Oh, political speeches? You might need to build yourself up to IKE. Because if you don't know what a Tankie is, IKE will blow your mind.

Edit- sorry about formatting.

They were not just targeting the originally selected groups of criminals that the country really does not want. They changed tack and were being indiscriminate, and even including legal migrants.. I saw this stated on BBC or Chanbel 4 news the other night by knowledgeable Americans who were interviewed.

That Fox News makes it seem as though all they ere doing was sending away rapists, drug dealers and murderers.

The criminals ICE arrest are already in jail/ the judicial system.

They take them out of US jails and set them free at the border.

'You have no idea where this might end if it is not stopped'

We've been through this so many times. This has been going on years. I even helpfully posted a link to the alleged ill treatment in detainment centres in 2016.
'This' has not evolved to mass murder and death camps no matter how much you keep saying it will.

Illegal immigrants need to be deported. We all cannot just up and move to any old country without due process.

Quote : "Illegal immigrants need to be deported. We all cannot just up and move to any old country without due process."

Back to basics... why ?

Reagan was all for it. Reagan believed in freedom from oppression.. What has changed ?

So clearly in the initial stages the priority was given to deporting convicted violent illegal migrants. As more of these get deported then of course there will be more deportations of illegal immigrants who although they may not have committed any violent crimes they have still committed a criminal offence by entering and residing in the country illegally.

In addition there will inevitably be mistakes where legal migrants and US citizens are detained before they can then prove their status.

Of course I recognise that some posters do not recognise the concept of illegal migrants favouring an open borders policy. However under the current law in the US they have committed a criminal offence by entering and residing in the US illegally.

Lastly I agree with you on media bias, the Fox news does indeed make it look like that there are only deportations of violent dangerous child abusing criminals. But equally there is bias from other news outlets that make out that there are only deportations of women and children. As always the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Quote " Of course I recognise that some posters do not recognise the concept of illegal migrants favouring an open borders policy."

Can you name a single US elected politician who has proposed an open borders policy in the last 20 years ?

Go on, find an open borders bill that has been proposed and voted on in congress.

No US politician has advocated for open borders because it would be massively unpopular with ordinary voters.

But people protesting against deportation and enforcement often have placards calling for 'no borders", at least I have seen this in the UK. I personally know left wing activists who believe in open borders. Among left wing activists it's quite a common belief. I don't know why that would surprise anyone.

That'll be a no then.

My quote was "of course some posters support open borders " and not "of course some elected US politicians support open borders ".

As far as I am aware there are no elected US politicians posting on MN.

Yes, agreed. Your comment was clear.

"I'm sure it'll be fine, trust me bro..."

It has been pointed out to you before that this Trump administration is very different to even the previous Trump admin.

So which posters have supported open borders?

Direct quotations in full please, @1dayatatime

Yes please. I'd like to know that as well.

I've been snowed under at work for 1.5 days and trying to catch up...noting we now seemingly have:

• journalists being arrested for recording anti-ICE protests,

• a Minesotta-based district judge providing a conservative estimate of 96 court orders violated by ICE in Minesotta during January alone:

"There has been an undeniable move by the Government in the past month to defy court orders or at least to stretch the legal process to the breaking point in an attempt to deny noncitizens their due process rights"

• A judge in New Jersey on ICE breaching a court order there.

"Respondents blatantly disregarded this Court’s Order...This was not a misunderstanding or lack of clarity; it was knowing and purposeful,”

• A Rhode Island judge (appointment by Trump), on the administration breaching a court order re. an ICE detainee:

“It seems clear that the Court can conclude that the [administration] willfully violated two of this Court’s orders and willfully misrepresented facts to the Court"

• in Massachusetts, another Judge:

“The Court notes that ICE signing its own permission slip, citing its own operational needs as reason for the transfer, offers little comfort or justification for ignoring a Federal Court Order,”

• In LA, another judge threatened the administration with contempt proceedings for continued defiance of a court order.

• Minessota, another judge on ICE tactics:

"generally suggest that ICE is attempting to hide the location of detainees.”

All those comments are from rulings delivered in the past week alone.

Supporting ICE means supporting brazen illegality. It means hating the constitution. It is outright support for fascism.

I don't rate your mind-reading skills.
🤣🤣🤣

Historical precedent is not being thrown at you. This is not about you or your precious sensitivities.🙄

It's about people being snatched off the streets.
It's about US children being removed from their parents. Even breast feeding babies taken from their mothers.
It's about law abiding, tax paying, productive immigrants being kidnapped and sent who knows where, when they're progressing through the immigration system.
It's about people hiding their neighbours' children.
Companies keeping minority employees indoors so ICE don't harrass them in the car park.
Schools "locking down" because ICE agents turn up.
The American economy suffering.
And violent, murderous men harrassing, assaulting and killing Americans who speak out.

It's about the WH administration demanding lists of Jewish students from universities.

So the historical precedent flies over your head, whoosh. Doesn't matter, its not about you.🤨

I would also be interested in this

Whatever definition YOU choose to accept, it doesn't change the key characteristics, of which the current US regime are following to the letter 🤷‍♀️

It is interesting that you mention 'due process' seeing as it is one of the things being ignored.

I have already asked you this and your silence was better than anything you could have posted BUT, you keep beating the same dead horse over and over so I'll ask again.

Under the once sacred constitution, all immigrants and asylum seekers are guaranteed due process. Other amendments further protect those being 'rounded up' by ICEstapo. Considering that the constitutional rights of both citizens AND immigrants are being disregarded, are you saying that local leaders and local plods should go along with this anyway?

Keep in mind that there is no doubt that ICEstapo are not upholding constitutional rights. Judicial orders are being disregarded. States strong armed into compliance.
Are you saying that this doesn't matter and local leaders and local plods should go along with it anyway? One of your opinions, all of which you keep repeating ad nauseum as if that will make them true, specifically that Walz and Frey are using Minneapolis to flog their anti Trump agenda completely disregards the fact that, as elected representatives, it is their DUTY to uphold the constitution. Are you saying that they should fall in line and be complicit in the disregard of constitutional rights, international and domestic law and ethical and humanitarian rights?

If you cannot rely on the laws being upheld, is that really not a concern? What do YOU believe are the consequences of removing constitutional rights in addition to the fundamental human rights of all if 'local leaders and local plods' are complicit?

Apologies if I've missed it (I need to catch up on the last few pages) but on the "is it fascism?" question, there was a very good recent article in the Atlantic.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/01/america-fascism-trump-maga-ice/685751/

It's behind a paywall (however effective those are, these days...)

A couple of paras from the opening:

"Until recently, I resisted using the F-word to describe President Trump. For one thing, there were too many elements of classical fascism that didn’t seem to fit. For another, the term has been overused to the point of meaninglessness, especially by left-leaning types who call you a fascist if you oppose abortion or affirmative action. For yet another, the term is hazily defined, even by its adherents. From the beginning, fascism has been an incoherent doctrine, and even today scholars can’t agree on its definition. Italy’s original version differed from Germany’s, which differed from Spain’s, which differed from Japan’s.

...

When the facts change, I change my mind. Recent events have brought Trump’s governing style into sharper focus. Fascist best describes it, and reluctance to use the term has now become perverse."

Reagan was a naive fool.

I heard he allowed amnesty for over 3 million illegals in the 80s. This was supposed to be in exchange for tougher border security and employer enforcement. Obviously these didn’t happen (well we did get ICE out of it).

It was supposed to be a one-off but it seems every ten years or so there are calls (usually from Democrats) to do another amnesty. Nobody learns anything, if you keep holding out the possibility of amnesty, you keep driving people across your border.

I will say that Obama was better on this than most modern democrats (I believe B Clinton wasn’t too bad either, since ICE was created under his administration, though I have no direct memory of this).

Marxism is against borders, but that's once the whole word is Marxist. And there will not be any states in that model too. Similar to, but not the same as libertarians I think. Both ideologies are unlikely to become world wide.

In any case, there appear to be no countries with open borders. So these demonstrators will have a long wait it seems.