So upset about ICE killings in Minnesota

[Allotmentblackfly]

So upset about the killings. No investigation and victim blaming from the Trump administration. I see no hope for America. Trump will cancel the midterms possibly elections or will rig them. The most powerful western country - one we thought was our friend is dying
im so sad for the bereaved and do sad for the country

ICE was a Bush era thing. Not Clinton. Homeland security Act 2002.

Re Reagan. If he was a " naive fool.", where on earth does that put Trump on the " fool" scale ?

Germany was inspired by the British camps during the Boer War. Utterly terrible. But it was the British, not the Germans.

I'm not a 'low info voter' for starters I don't vote in the US and secondly I said I'm not an expert in global politics. Not the same as being a 'low info voter' is it?

Tricky, because Bush sort of reshuffled things as part of creating the DHS. He delegated certain responsibilities to ICE and CBP but didn’t actually create those functions.

The foundational principles came from legislation signed by Clinton, known as the ‘illegal immigration reform and immigrant responsibility act’ and apparently a department known then as the INS handled what would later be given to ICE (along with a million other things they were handling apparently).

I think it’s an important distinction because we should in fact credit Bill Clinton with singing this enforcement mechanism into law (you can see that details of the IIRIRA are familiar to anyone with a cursory understanding of US immigration law).

My 'precious sensitivities'? You mean asking that some of you see that your nazi and concentration camp scaremongering is absolutely sick, appalling and not remotely comparable? I must remember to tell Jews that they are being 'sensitive'if they ask that a past atrocity is not used to criticise what the current immigration officers are doing.

The situation in in the US is not about me that is one correct thing you've said, on this thread however when posters keep quoting me and trying so very hard to challenge me then I'll respond to that. Hope that's cleared that up for you.

And so far as I can tell nobody in this thread has any objection to an immigration enforcement agency in principle.

It's directing one to commit rampant and widespread illegal acts, violating the rights of citizens and non-citizens, operating in the belief they have absolute immunity for criminal consequences, being used for suppresive purposes other than immigration control, that many have a problem with. And that's very much a Trump thing.

How do you propose we deport people once they exhaust their asylum claims? Many simply don’t leave. A strongly worded letter (ie final deportation order) isn’t enough.

We had 10 million people rush the border during Biden’s term. How do you propose getting them to leave?

If you don’t have any good ideas yourself, maybe don’t complain when someone else actually tries to solve the problem.

This situation has really made me reflect upon what I would actually do if I lived in an authoritarian state and saw members of my community that were different being taken. If we don’t want to make comparisons to Germany we can unfortunately think of plenty of others, the Khmer Rouge for instance. Would I try to do something and risk being killed or would I hide and live with the guilt or convince myself it wasn’t so bad. I’m not proud that I don’t really know the answer to this, because the reality is that what happened in Minnesota has scared me.

What people should not do is move countries without visas. I fancy many different counties and have indeed lived and worked abroad, did I just pack my case and move. No. Visas, work permits etc may be a bit tedious but unless you like breaking laws we must all follow the rules. I know I know, that makes me a nazi apparently 🥱. Now the khmer Rouge have a mention too. Who next I wonder?

How about legally, constitutionally, and without breaching court orders with impunity?

Asking for the law to be upheld, and actually mean something, isn't a big ask.

And let's face it - immigration enforcement is only part motivation for the way the agency has been used by Trump. Again - anyone - why was handing over voter rolls one of the 3 preconditions given, by the AG, for the administration's withdrawal of ICE?

(Hint - it's because they're an army of thugs being used to attack democracy, on behalf of one of the most corrupt and lawless administrations that Western society has ever seen).

Some federal judges are out of control but once it winds its way up to SCOTUS things are usually set nicely. Like, federal judges trying to undermine Trump on TPS (purely a matter for the executive) is uncalled for, but at least things get fixed at the highest level. Gums up the system in the meantime (which is their intent, let’s be real)

Ah yes. Because Trump prefers cheques and bank balances over the oft mentioned checks and balances.

How is Trump getting on with sacking the judges he appointed who now rule against him ? He did mention that I recall.

Federal Judges accross the country, including Trump appointees, are frequently finding against the administration - and not on narrow technical grounds, but regular and brazen contempt.

Whether you, personally, have to agree with federal judges decisions, they carry legal weight. If the administration doesn't like an order and think it has grounds to do so, it can appeal it. Instead, it routinely ignores them. It is lawlessness, plain and simple.

Imagine complaining about "illegal" immigtants, or excusing protestors being killed for "interfering with law enforcement" whilst happily supporting all or most of the legal system being chucked out the window.

You dont see government demands for lists of Jews as dangerous and Nazi like? Which historical precedent would you prefer?

I miss the laughing emoji

Those damn federal judges applying the law an all. Of course, a fascist authoritarian isn't going to let that stop him.
He stacked the SC so he knows he won't be stopped 🤷‍♀️

Yes, but what point exactly are you making? Concentration camps are bad, we should not see them in the modern world, whether that's in China or the USA - you might expect it in a repressive dictatorship like the PRC, but what does that make the US if it uses them too?

My dad, an Irish immigrant in the 70’s, remembers a time at the height of the troubles where there were proposals to “register” any Irish citizen.

even then he recognised it as one step from making them wear the Star of David.

not all immigrants are illegal criminals. Not all Irish were IRA activists.

Many immigrants benefit the country they emigrate to. We seem to have lost sight of that.

Well we could all 'remember' something that didn't happen. Not sure of the relevance here though are you suggesting illegal immigrants shouldn't be reported and removed? We should all live where we like as we aren't all terrorists or some such?

For a start you need to actually wait until an asylum claim has been concluded. And if one is rejected, then once the final deportation order is issued then a warrant should be obtained. Any detention facilities used should never be allowed to overcrowd, should be kept sanitary and detainees should not stay in short-term facilities for long periods of time.

I grew up in such an environment.
Whistles and bin lids were used to alert people to the presence of authorities.
People would prepare washes for victims of tear gas.
HCPs would patch people up so they didn't have to go to hospital.
Sometimes barricades were erected to prevent easy entry and exit.
Tactics developed and differed according to the risks.

I'm so glad my children are growing up in a different time.

I wasn't actually making a point. I just wanted to make a factual correction

A correction of what? What statement did I make in the quoted post that was factually incorrect?

For a start you need to actually wait until an asylum claim has been concluded

You can actually take them to a detention facility and have them run through the process there. You may not LIKE it, but was the process under Obama and its better than having them disappear into the community, where it’s harder to get them to leave.

You’d probably have an issue with deporting failed asylum seekers from the sound of it anyway.

Fan of the strongly worded letter that’s ignored? Then you say, well they’ve not caused trouble and are now part of the community!!! Tiresome

Well if your children aren't in a country illegally they've nothing to worry about.

I must admit I've never had to blow my whistle to alert anyone to the presence of the police but then I don't break the law or live with criminals.