To think that hygiene standards in public spaces in London/UK are way below what's expected from a developed country

[Playdoughy]

I'll start with coffee shops, chains in particular - if it's past 9am, tables that are free are covered in empty cups and dirty bags from previous customers, surface wet, soiled, chairs covered in stains and crumbs - and this remains like this till end of day.
Toilets, even in nice restaurants are smelly, sinks full of hair, water (or worse) stains, at best you can expect to find the toilet seat wiped - maybe. But beneath it you'd find urine and feces weeks old, the actual toilet bowl stained, at best you'd expect the clean bowl but a heavy build-up under the rim. Floors, walls - that seems to be cleaned only when the establishment is first open.
And people don't seem to mind, people don't seem to clean behind themselves either...
The only exception are 5 star hotels really, if you can even call that a public space.

I am mentioning this as a heavy contrast to some parts of Europe for example, where tables get cleaned behind every customer even in chains such as McDonald's or Starbucks - these actually look inviting, clean and airy. Toilets are airy, clean and properly washed every few hours (not just checked for dead bodies and a tick on the schedule hanging on the door). Yes, you can find a filthy toiled but it would be fresh stain clearly coming from a person without any manners visiting in the last hour or two post last clean.

Now, the reason why I am writing now after years living here and thinking that it's just simply a different hygene standard people got used to.
Few weeks ago, through work I found myself in an establishment akin to private club. It is a public space in the sense it is busy and frequently visited (although by a selected group of members), and after queuing for a toilet I found myself in a public toilet that was actually proper clean.
So I realised - the hygene levels here are very high, it's just that it only applies to a selected group of people - while the assumption is that your average person should be completely fine with sitting on a stained chair or feeling like they are walking through a sewage if they decide to visit a toilet during their meal in a restaurant.
How, why and when has this become acceptable?

We're on a slippery slope. People are just (mainly) disgusting. Today, yet again, I saw someone in a restaurant blowing their nose on the paper napkin and leaving it on the table for the waiter to take away.

I mean...do people really think that is acceptable ??

I go in to cafes and restaurants and very often have to ask people to wipe the table I want to sit at. I see people with dogs in their laps drooling over these tables.

I'm going to stop going out.

Mostly cleaners aren't on payroll and a large corporation doesn't take the time or care to measure contractors' performance across the entire chain so details are inevitably missed. Quite possibly the training isn't as thorough (and yes it does take training to be able to properly clean a bathroom stall at speed - there's a method) and a transient agency workforce isn't as invested as salaried employees with pensions are.

There's a general air of grubbiness and corners cut in a lot of places but actually over the past few years I've seen the biggest drop in supermarkets, especially co op. Their self service tills are fucking minging, old food crumbs and stains all over, while they beep at you and film you stealing their carrier bags.

I know this is about indoor spaces, but I've been thinking this about streets recently - everywhere I've been there's been litter, fag butts, dogshit, gob. Clearly not a lot of street cleaning going on but wtf, why is there so much of this on the street in the first place? Bins are usually overflowing which doesn't help.

Every time I Travel abroad I come back and realise what a dump this country has now become . Nobody is accountable for any bad behaviour anymore , not only is it hugely expensive it’s dirty , full of deprivation and people that are just slobs .

This.

Maybe it’s just the area you live in? We’re out a lot in London and the M25 commuter belt, so very busy areas, but I can’t remember the last time I came across grim toilets.

Tables are clean in Europe, staff dont like you sitting down until they've cleared and cleaned the table, they'll come rushing out to wipe down chairs if dirty

However toilets, you must be joking, Ive never been in a chain abroad such as Mcdonalds or Starbucks but we frequently travel and eat out all the time and toilets are a horror show, wet floors, no hooks, can barely fit in the toilet, no lock on the door, no seat, often no loo roll.

This is also in fairly highish class restaurants too, from the smallest back street cafe to restaurants. You take your chances.

Are you from Japan by chance? Is that what you're comparing us to?

One of the worst ladies toilets ever was at a Starbucks services off a roundabout at Blyth (A1M) last year. It was midday at a weekend.

The bin in the loo was full and women had actually left used tampon tubes on the floor, as well as empty water bottles and all sorts of other rubbish.

I mean- can't you wrap it in loo paper and take it home or to the nearest bin?

The other ghastly loos are the ones at St Pancras London International.
Again, rubbish on the floor, empty bottles, food containers in the cubicles, filthy looking floors. loo seats where someone has dribbled and not wiped up.

On the other hand, my local commuter station has pristine loos (just 3 cubicles) and one day a cleaner was spraying air freshener everywhere while I was in the loo- she was spraying it all over the floor.
Nice idea but a bit overpowering!

It is grim in chains where the staff are only there as a stop gap job and it's not their career or dream to progress or open their own place. Usually independent cafes have bettee customer service, unless it's another mini franchise.
Cafes don't try hard if there isn't competition nearby and they know people are stuffed basically ie Chessington and Beamish are horrible because they know you are stuck to eat there.

I agree wholeheartedly!
I don’t do a close inspection of toilets. Don’t think I could stomach it but I do look around as I am using the facilities.
For me it’s the layers of grime that get my attention. The build up of dirt in the corners, the filthy grout, the obvious mould and black gunk around the taps, the dirty woodwork. All indicators that proper deep cleaning never takes place. Don’t even get me started on the way some people leave the toilets. It makes wonder about their habits at home. It takes a few seconds to clean up after yourself.
However the businesses also need to invest in more thorough cleaning and higher standards.
I feel that in general many niceties are slipping eg M&S hot drinks and no saucer( or little biscuit treat) and we are all just accepting it has to be this way

Starbucks, joe and the Juice, Leon, Costa, McDonalds they are all rank. The staff are usually young uni students who think they are too good to clean up and who suck at customer service. God knows how they got hired. They are shit, I do not know how they got the job.

I have noticed that tables aren’t cleared unless you ask, quite often.

Restaurants and toilets in Europe are also gross.

I don’t think we’re much better than Europe. The exception is parts of Spain and Italy where they’re culturally a bit more into cleaning. I once got roundly told off by a bus conductor on a long distance bus in Spain for taking my trainers off - my feet were in socks and on the floor!

The density of footfall in the UK is what leads to grotty public spaces, plus, as much as I hate to say it, a diverse population with different standards of cleanliness.

I think standards have dropped in many respects in the UK. People don't seem to make an effort with their appearance, their weight etc. In airports abroad you can spot the Brits a mile off.

Agreed. The toilets in most places make me not want to eat there.

Absolutely this. They’re usually cleaner in Northern Europe but definitely mostly dirtier in France and southern Europe. You’re lucky if there’s a hot tap, soap and a towel in a lot of places, and the floors look like they haven’t seen a mop since 1982.

I agree with you OP. This country is filthy and we have no pride in our surroundings. I hadn't really noticed how utterly disgusting this country is until we went to Japan last year. There was no litter in the verges along the roads, whether urban or through the countryside, the streets are clean, no chewing gum stuck all over the footpaths, no litter in the gutters, no overflowing waste bins, subways clean, public transport clean, and yet there are very few bins, people just take their rubbish home and dispose of it responsibly. This country is a filthy disgrace. I litter-picked along my road about a month ago, because I was do disgusted with all the rubbish that people drop or throw out of their cars. It's covered in rubbish again 🙁

We frequently drive to Denmark, on the whole the toilets we use en route through the Netherlands and Germany are noticeably grubbier than toilets in the UK unless they are ones you have to pay to enter. This includes in places like McDonalds

I agree about public spaces in general. When I visit my parents in the UK there is litter everywhere nowadays and the council don't seem to do basic upkeep any more like maintaining playgrounds, pulling up weeds growing on the pavements etc. It leads to a feeling that the place is already run down so why bother.

I live in a European capital that is extremely well maintained and clean with the one exception of public toilets which are disgusting and you have to pay for them, so the grass isn't always totally green on the other side.

I was impressed with the public toilets at North Greenwich tube the other day

as for restaurants and cafes well it's a mixture of lazy arse people who's sole thought is 'nmp' not my problem - and lazy arse staff who whilst yes low paid are still paid to clean tables. If minimum wage means minimum effort well then idk what to say really.

Other countries are definitely cleaner including the people despite living in hot sweaty conditions.

I now carry bags and wipes and do it myself and omg the looks I get! Honestly 😂

I usually find motorway service station toilets pretty good, but then again someone is employed to look after them.

They are.
It was a Starbucks on a small development off the Services, and was being used as the services at Blyth (nr Doncaster) are very small.